joenoname1913 Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:16pm
Armour Penetration and Unit Stats
Does anyone know what the difference between "Melee Attack" and "Weapon Damage" is?

Also the encyclopaedia references Armour Penetration quite a bit, I would love to know where that value is represented, is it one of the above stats?

Thanks.
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Xander Tyrann Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:20pm 
melee attack is skill with the blade and i believe kinda like chance to hit. damage is the weapon damage when it hits, changed by armour pen and armour values. i cant remember how it works, it was mentioned before in an article by CA before and it is a seperate stat.
joenoname1913 Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:23pm 
So the Armour Penetration is a seperate stat that we cannot see? That makes little sense, would it be possible to post your source. Thanks for the help.
Xander Tyrann Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:30pm 
heres a bit of info i just found. i wouldnt be able to find where i originally read about armour pen though and i'm not sure where this guy is getting his details.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/79618-Lets-get-educated-on-Armor-Penetration-and-why-its-silly.?s=070611b9568a2e05f27b7e359533cfae
Last edited by Xander Tyrann; Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:34pm
[SH] Koroshiya Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:40pm 
you can see the armour penetration stats, but only if you use PFM.
Every weapon has to damages, a raw damge against targets without armour, and a damage that ignores the armour from a soldier gets from the equipment wearing.
A spear for example has 20 raw damge and 20 AP damage, this means, if a soldier equipped with a spear figths a soldier with no armor he does 20 damage and if he fights a soldier with armour he does 20 damage, no matter how high the armour value of the soldier is.
Other weapons likes sword and axes have damage like these 50 raw damage and 10 AP damage, so the soldier equipped with a weapons like this does 50 damage against an unarmoured soldier and 10 damage against a soldier with a good armour, but it depends of if the armour damaga is higher than the raw damage of the weapon.
BTW, PFM = Pack File Manager, a tool to mod .pack files.
Swesal Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:55pm 
Pretty sure damage=armor penetration, which is damage that ignores armor. Do even if you are in a tetsudo with Triarii(which has very high armor values, damage will still be done with whatever weapon damage you have per unit attacking. Looks like from that link you posted thats why when you are in tetsudo is don't seem to help very much from ranged units, as they all have pretty high "Weapon Damage", infact you may be worse off just because you are in that tight formation.. I'm pretty much just reading what was said on that post you linked though, I haven't actually resarched it myslef.
joenoname1913 Sep 13, 2013 @ 5:41pm 
OMG, i'm such a tool, but I still don't get it. I'm having trouble shifting out of Shogun 2 mode. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Armour was solely representative of Ranged Missle Defence, it had no relevance on melee in that game.

But if what you are saying is true then what does melee defence mean?

Sorry if I'm being dense
Xander Tyrann Sep 13, 2013 @ 5:43pm 
Originally posted by joenoname1913:
OMG, i'm such a tool, but I still don't get it. I'm having trouble shifting out of Shogun 2 mode. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Armour was solely representative of Ranged Missle Defence, it had no relevance on melee in that game.

But if what you are saying is true then what does melee defence mean?

Sorry if I'm being dense
i dont think it matters in ranged attacks, in melee its compared against the enemies melee attack to get the chance to hit.

joenoname1913 Sep 13, 2013 @ 7:47pm 
Originally posted by Xander Tyrann:
i dont think it matters in ranged attacks, in melee its compared against the enemies melee attack to get the chance to hit.


Okay I get what you are saying but riddle me this: How much damage would a unit like the Hastati do with it's ranged attack before it charges into melee? Is it the same amount of damage as it would do in melee?

Also, Workshop Chains allow you to upgrade Shields as well as Armor, what kind of damage is mitigated by Shields? And is there anyway to find THAT statistic?

Thanks again, wish this information was available in the Encyclopedia.
Xaxoon Sep 13, 2013 @ 7:50pm 
Originally posted by joenoname1913:
Does anyone know what the difference between "Melee Attack" and "Weapon Damage" is?

Also the encyclopaedia references Armour Penetration quite a bit, I would love to know where that value is represented, is it one of the above stats?

Thanks.
Are you one of that dudes, played WoW years ago, using a technical reference list, how you use which item to do that demage within a specifical time? Nope? Ok, i thought it was you dude, sorry for that... ;-)
joenoname1913 Sep 13, 2013 @ 8:01pm 
Originally posted by Xaxoon:
Are you one of that dudes, played WoW years ago, using a technical reference list, how you use which item to do that demage within a specifical time? Nope? Ok, i thought it was you dude, sorry for that... ;-)

No, I am, in fact, not one of THAT dudes. I've never played WOW. I had no idea that trying to figure out basic unit stats would bring on such thinly veiled contempt.

But rest assured sir, I appreciate your input.
Iconicle The Meaning of Life Sep 20, 2013 @ 5:31am 
Okay okay, weapon damage is damage this unit will do to target unit's health pool. Unlike previous Total war games, units have a bigger health pool as opposed to Shogun, which was one hp and two for general/hero, That is, if the unit has zero melee defense and armour. You see melee attack determines how likely your unit will be successful in a melee attack, which is rolled against their melee defense. Melee defense is how well your units defend themselves against melee attacks. If the attacking unit is successful, he hits, which is then reduced by armour.

Okay, here's where things get confusing. All weapon damage is split between base damage and ap (armour penetration) damage. Base damage is reducible by armour whereas ap damage is not. So for example if it says weapon damage 40 (30 base damage and 10 armor penetration) than the weapon will do at least 10 ap damage and then base damage which is then reduced by armor.

Shields, depending on which type, will give a varying amount of extra stats to either melee defense or armor or both.

Armour reduces damage from both melee damage and range damage but is the only defense against missiles. Well, other than not being there when it lands, walls or objects in the way, or they simply miss. This also applied to shogun 2 but a little bit differently. Also there seems to be a penalty defense/armour to units taking missiles from the back or sides. No one knows for sure how the math works on any of the stats except CA so everything is a bit hazy.
Skates Sep 20, 2013 @ 5:36am 
Has anyone mentioned yet that you can view the Armour Penetration value by hovering over the weapon damage stat on a unit card?
joenoname1913 Sep 21, 2013 @ 10:34am 
thanks guys, that really helps, atleast I have a basic understanding of the newer mechanics, even if the intricacies are still a bit unclear. Thanks again.
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Date Posted: Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:16pm
Posts: 13