No keyboard support....

[EvilLost]

Topic. After some random key pressing I found out "Z" is equivalent to "accept", and managed to get myself into the keybind options....except it doesn't detect the majority of my keys (for example, I can't set space to jump)

[Ironclaw]

It occurs to me that I forgot to mention in the other, similar thread that most doujin games don't allow very much free key rebinding - they seem to be kind of intended to be played with controllers of some sort, as they use a very limited set of buttons in the ZXCVASDQWE area. It is, unfortunately, probably impossible to bind things to keys outside of that area.

[EvilLost]

Yes, but this should be mentioned on the Game's Store page.
Although one can argue that "technically" it has keyboard support, I do NOT call this keyboard support.

The key layout is beyond retarded too.... ZXCV? So I'm supposed to jump using my middle finger, block with my pointer finger and attack using my....pinky?

Idiotic design, absolutely idiotic.


But having spent 30minutes playing the game, the entire game is awful so I guess that isn't too surprising. They have one good mechanic (the combat) and literally NOTHING else.

[Ironclaw]

It would be nice if it was mentioned on the store page, but:
A) the game has a demo, so it's not like it's impossible to find out about it without buying the game.
B) This is kind of standard with doujin games. Recettear and Chantelise have exactly the same control scheme, albeit without the 'esc force-quits' thing.
You make a good point about ZXCV though, I still can't figure out which finger I'm supposed to use for which key. Generally I just abandon one key (jump or block, depending on what kind of mood I'm in) entirely because pressing buttons with my pinky is too awkward.
It is keyboard support, though. No keyboard support would be if no key on the keyboard did anything. It just has a control scheme that is uncommon and somewhat awkward by Western standards.

...and considering that the combat is the entire point of the game, what else did you really expect? The skills system seems perfectly functional to me, experience might as well not exist but sort of works as a method of restricting skill unlocks, and the story and graphics are going to be a matter of taste.

[EvilLost]

@Ironclaw: i agree on abandoning a key.

Not everyone plays the demo first, and I don't even know about those other 2 games...you can't assume people would know "all doujin games are like this"


This is NOT keyboard support. It might "work" with a keyboard, but it is NOT keyboard supprot. It supports only a pre-defined set of input keys that have clearly been hand-made to work with the keyboard. It does not detec thte majority of keyboard key presses.


With regards to the combat: I was expecting an actual game revolving around the combat. As someone else said, this is "Blob bash simulator." There aren't even a variety of enemy types.


I don't care so much cause it came as part of a bundle, but this game is still awful.

[Ironclaw]

Okay, that's fair. I personally like the game, but I don't disagree with any of your criticisms of it - the enemies are definitely a weakness of the game, with only about five basic enemy types (one or two of which have multiple variants) and about five bosses. On the other hand, it's not a particularly long game either, so it's not like the repetition of enemies becomes particularly tedious unless you try to complete every mode and every difficulty or something.

I'm a little curious what you would define as an 'actual game', given that Freesia has most of the traits of one (interactivity, numerical and skill-based progression, a failure-state, etc.). Can we agree to call it a fairly limited game, with a significant focus on its combat system? If it was Dear Esther we were talking about, or maybe The Stanley Parable, I would somewhat agree that those are more like "interactive storytelling experiences" or whatever similarly pretentious term is most appropriate.

(I personally think it's okay to make "blob bash simulator" as long as you do it well, anyway - there are games out there which focus on a far smaller set of mechanics)

[Eleven Inches Unbuffed.]

Alright. If you buy a game without looking at reviews/playing the demo, you have no-one to blame except yourself.

I managed to finish the entire game. Then again on the highest difficulty, and then the bonus mode.
The controls work fine. You're just complaining because you aren't willing to try and learn to use a new control scheme? FBF is quite fun if you're willing to learn the mechanics.

Also, you use a keyboard in game. a large portion of Japanese PC games use this keyboard layout, they think that WASD to move is weird, and a lot of western games don't even allow that small margin of key-binding options. You know what they do? They adapt.

You want a game with no keyboard support? Brothers - A Tale of Two Sons.

If you want to call the game bad for reasons that it is actually bad (Limited resolution options, achievements don't always unlock when they should. The Version 111 ->112 patcher is in moon, not in steam and doesn't work, etc.) then go ahead, those are valid complaints. But you're calling the game bad because you're lazy. And that's not on.

[EvilLost]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Erik von Darkmoor:

Alright. If you buy a game without looking at reviews/playing the demo, you have no-one to blame except yourself.

I managed to finish the entire game. Then again on the highest difficulty, and then the bonus mode.
The controls work fine. You're just complaining because you aren't willing to try and learn to use a new control scheme? FBF is quite fun if you're willing to learn the mechanics.

Also, you use a keyboard in game. a large portion of Japanese PC games use this keyboard layout, they think that WASD to move is weird, and a lot of western games don't even allow that small margin of key-binding options. You know what they do? They adapt.

You want a game with no keyboard support? Brothers - A Tale of Two Sons.

If you want to call the game bad for reasons that it is actually bad (Limited resolution options, achievements don't always unlock when they should. The Version 111 ->112 patcher is in moon, not in steam and doesn't work, etc.) then go ahead, those are valid complaints. But you're calling the game bad because you're lazy. And that's not on.

1) I said I got it in a bundle so I'm not really concerned, but that doesn't change the fact that this is not, in fact, keyboard support.

2) Why should I have to learn new controls? One of the primary reasons of PC gaming is customizability. If this was a console, you are 100% right. But its not. And its labelled as having keyboard support. There is a good reason I don't own a single console.

What western PC game [that has keyboard support] doesn't allow keybinding? "A lot of western games" don't support rebinding....ORLY? Have you PLAYED any games? Cause eastern or western, almost all of them support rebinding (ESP if they claim to have keyboard support). At least if the game is any good.

3) The controls "work" sure, but, again, the entire point of claiming to have keyboard support is to, you know, have keyboard support. I wouldn't be so irked if they simply said it "works with keyboard but not supported." SUPPORT has a specific meaning in tech/software....

4) Good for you for finishing the game. I probably could have too, but I found no reason to be forced to learn an unnatural, uncomfortable, and unenjoyable control scheme. It has NOTHING to do with laziness, and everything to do with enjoyment. I like to enjoy my games and getting frustrated over bad controls is not what I call fun.

I don't see a single valid reason to be forced to "work" (read: Not be lazy) to learn a poor control scheme.

[Rocket2049]

just use a gamepad...

[EvilLost]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rocket2049:

just use a gamepad...

Completely missed the point.

If I wanted to use a gamepad, I would go play on consoles. I prefer keyboard controls.


Anyway, this game isn't worth remotely this much discussion. It is just dumb to say it has keyboard support when it doesn't. That is all.

[anonymous316]

I feel fighting games and beat em ups are best played with a controller but that's just my opinion.
Some things just feel more natural on one device than the other, RPGs and FPS games I prefer using keyboard and mouse but driving and fighting games I prefer a controller.

[Kandarihu]

Guys, this sort of keyboard layout is all the rage in Japanese Doujin games. It's the way the Touhou games work. And when I came to this game, that's what I tried by default. I'm guessing this is the first Doujin game you came to, right? Like it or not, these sorts of games are rooted in the consoles in terms of design. But they are generally sold at Comiket (a massive semi-annual event where independent manga, games, music, and anime are sold). And these games aren't made for consoles.
Like I said, to people like me who are used to these games, zxcv is perfectly natural. It's more of a system of tiers. Z is primary, so it's for accepting the menu item. X is secondary, so it's for cancelling. C is tertiary, and V and so on. Sometimes Left Shift is used, sometimes A and S, or even Q and W. So you want to map jumping to Space Bar? Really? I realize that works in FPSes and MMOs and WRPGs. But it's best to think of this game as a console-style platformer on the PC and approach it as that.

[EvilLost]

@Kandarihu: did you read the thread at all....

Been covered already. Keyboard support means keyboard support. Everything you said has already been covered already, try reading above...

Just to be really clear: I don't care if its natural, I don't care if its the godliest control scheme on the planet. I want to use MY control scheme. I don't care if you don't like it or don't approve, you don't need to use it. Keyboard support means keyboard support, not "10 keys of your keyboard support."

[Lunacatca]

i had issues getting it to load at first until i told it not to update then figuring out the keys was a pain until i found this post thanks

[⎛⎝kingj0n⎠⎞]

Didin't read everything in the whole thread, but I have to agree...
IT's just horrible. I have to use the arrow keys with my right hand and start pressing with my left hand.
Mouse is useless. Which is fine, but I cannot set jump as the space bar. I couldn't set jump as the up arrow key.. It's just a confusing mess.
Right now, I'm only at the launch screen where it asks if I want to update from Ver.111 to 112.. just to get cards. The game is just unplayable and I don't want to play it with this crappy keyboard setup..

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

FYI

This doesn't nullify the criticisms mentioned here, but I hope the following information sheds some light onto the control scheme.

The rebindable keys are twelve keys on the left side of the keyboard: Z X C V A S D F Q W E R.

These keys are, respectively, identified as "0" to "11" when you configure your controls. That's

Z X C V | A S D F | Q W  E  R
0 1 2 3 | 4 5 6 7 | 8 9 10 11

So yes, you can rearrange how the left hand controls work. Not to the point of using any key (can't use the space bar, for example, if I recall correctly), but within these twelve keys, you can go nuts.

As has been mentioned, arrow keys + ZXC is a very common control scheme among Japanese indie games, as well as some western indie platformers as well as emulators.

If you want, I can post my own control scheme as a suggestion.