What ending did you choose?

[Daniël]

Before you continue reading please note that this thread will contain end-game spoilers. Readers beware.

So, as people who have finished the game know, you get to make a choice at the very end of the game. Either you'll kill yourself (and Ora), to protect your honor and die for the clan. Or you kill Azai, who has betrayed you and abused your trust.

So what choice have you made?

I chose to kill Azai, even though the choice seemed very easy to me, considering what Azai had done to you and tattoo artist (whom's name slipped my mind), it still was a lot harder for me to actually do it. It might have something to do with the fact that honor means a lot to me (even in a video game), which gave the choice quite a bit of emotional impact.

So tell me guys, what did you choose and more importantly, why did you make that decision?

[KaGo]

I killed Ora and thereby myself. I did this because I had the feeling of drifting into madness, this became very obvious to me when "Ora" told me to slaughter the whole clan once I am done with Azai. How can I say for sure that I am not insane already? Did Azai really betray me, or does it only look like it to me because the Ink is taking control over my mind? Why do the ninjas look like security guards to me? For me, there was only one solution: freeing myself from the curse.

[Lykan]

I killed Azai. The clan had destroyed their honor from stealing Kajaran's technology and using it for their own ends. I didn't like what the clan had become. Here we have this ninja who holds true to his clan's traditions. The so-called 'mark' that was given to him? The clan used him as a guinea pig to kill off Kajaran and 'evolve' into the 21st century. The ninja was betrayed and used by a clan who cares less about tradition and honor. Is it meaningful to evolve? Yes but this ninja has stuck to tradition...hasn't died yet. Yet the clan feels as though technology will make them stronger when they are stronger than any piece of technology due to their old traditions. This ninja has proven that. By such, the clan has spit on their honor. The clan has no honor. I felt it was right to kill Azai and slip into madness. The truth is put into perspective with a little help from chaos.

[Mazey]

The first time through I killed Azai, but on my second it became very clear that the main character was entirely in favour of the original plan and it was only the mark that made him forget his part in it and start believing that the clan had lost its honour.
Watch the first cutsense, it shows the ninja having a dream of attacking the mercenaries, and then he wakes to the mercenaries retribution. Given the order these occur, it's very clear to me that the ninja took the mark in the first place in order to attack the mercenaries and steal their equipment and the appearence of it as a dream was the mark's way of convincing the ninja that it never really occurred, even though it did.
Further, whenever the ninja talks to Azai, he acts reasonably, he only chases the ninja down because he sees that the mark is sending him mad. He never acts in a manipultive manner or hides things. The stolen items are there in plain view as the ninja walks to his final sacrifice the first time. Why would he act like that if he was trying to keep his plan a secret? Far more likely is that he believed the ninja was already aware was everything because he had agreed to take part. Azai never explicitly explains all the details, but that's simply because in the time-line of the game, Azai believed that the ninja already knew everything, so why bother explaining again?

Remember that the ninja took the first mark before the mercenaries attacked for the first time. Why would he do that if he had no knowledge of the plan?

[Daniël]

I must know though, even though the ninja was indeed starting to lose his mind, what are your opinions on the fact that they mistreated the tattoo artist (still don't know his name), who got mistreated by Azai and his troops, do you think that was also imagined or not important to the matter.

[KaGo]

I think it is impossible to tell what is real and what's not at the end. It might just be one of "Ora's" tricks to make you do her bidding.
Also very, very good points made by Mazey, cheers!

[Mazey]

;864957182746114241 původně napsal:

I must know though, even though the ninja was indeed starting to lose his mind, what are your opinions on the fact that they mistreated the tattoo artist (still don't know his name), who got mistreated by Azai and his troops, do you think that was also imagined or not important to the matter.

The people who mistreat him are simply bandits, there's no evidence that they're aligned with Azai when they were doing that. He does die from blasts from Azai's ninjas, but those were aiming at you, it could easily have been collatoral damage rather than intent. The most damning part of that section is that the tatoo artist (Dosan?) tells you that you need to stop Azai, but that's a very vauge statement and given little context at the time. It could have meant "Stop Azai being careless with the ink plants, because otherwise I'll be out of a job."

[Mina Miko]

personally i killed azai at first, because it just felt like he had abused everything the hisomu were standing for. but after reading what others had to say, i realized i completly missed the more subtle psychological side of the game. now i cant make my mind at all, which is probably a good indicator that the story is so well weaved

[𝔗𝔢𝔞 ❀]

Mazey původně napsal:

The first time through I killed Azai, but on my second it became very clear that the main character was entirely in favour of the original plan and it was only the mark that made him forget his part in it and start believing that the clan had lost its honour.
Watch the first cutsense, it shows the ninja having a dream of attacking the mercenaries, and then he wakes to the mercenaries retribution. Given the order these occur, it's very clear to me that the ninja took the mark in the first place in order to attack the mercenaries and steal their equipment and the appearence of it as a dream was the mark's way of convincing the ninja that it never really occurred, even though it did.
Further, whenever the ninja talks to Azai, he acts reasonably, he only chases the ninja down because he sees that the mark is sending him mad. He never acts in a manipultive manner or hides things. The stolen items are there in plain view as the ninja walks to his final sacrifice the first time. Why would he act like that if he was trying to keep his plan a secret? Far more likely is that he believed the ninja was already aware was everything because he had agreed to take part. Azai never explicitly explains all the details, but that's simply because in the time-line of the game, Azai believed that the ninja already knew everything, so why bother explaining again?

Remember that the ninja took the first mark before the mercenaries attacked for the first time. Why would he do that if he had no knowledge of the plan?

Agreed. I think killing yourself is the better ending. There is also one small line in the last mission that makes the kill Azai the bad ending, Ora says that the clan has no honour, and after Azai "we" will purge the whole clan. Kill everyone, thus ending the clan (and how will it continue with a mad hallucinating ninja in charge of no-one?), turning on your history, the traditions, your master. There is also the end points that Azai surrenders, does not attack and that if you get the scrolls, the original great ninja also spoke of the necessity of killing those with the mark. Because if not, well, your ninja likely kills a whole lot of the clan when coming back.

[ManOfHonor]

Daniël původně napsal:

...the tattoo artist (still don't know his name)...

Mazey původně napsal:

Dosan?

Yes, Dosan... At first I killed Azai... but I am not sure was I right, I acted the scene 3 times and still not sure.

[Peltron5000]

I killed Azai without hesistation. He betrayed the clan and the sacred code of the ninjas by stealing the tech from the hessians. He tried to force me into an early grave which I would have gone for if he wasn't so deceitful. Sure, now I'm a crazy ninja and probably am going to go into a killing spree from what the ending seemed to show, but in my book, that ending was worth it in order to get that guy with a well deserved strike to the chest. I did replay the game (as well as new game plus) and the other ending just wasn't worth it. As for the rest of the clan being purged, they had a choice to defy Azai, and none of them did it, so they deserved to be destroyed by my hand.

[Demonidze]

well its pretty clear that in order to survive in modern world the clan going to need better equipment then what they got. one ninja, marked ninja.. is a sacrifice, in order to ensure rest of the clan survives and its been told to me several times during the play through, during cut-scenes or when collecting the lore thingies..

also I have a question, I just finished game for first time and Iam not 100% that what iam going to say is 100% true... but why does the clan got attacked in first place? I dont remember I saw the advanced gear in the clan's hideout? its only appears after I come home at the last mission. might it be taken later on like trophies?

[ManOfHonor]

Kikupor původně napsal:

well its pretty clear that in order to survive in modern world the clan going to need better equipment then what they got. one ninja, marked ninja.. is a sacrifice, in order to ensure rest of the clan survives and its been told to me several times during the play through, during cut-scenes or when collecting the lore thingies..

also I have a question, I just finished game for first time and Iam not 100% that what iam going to say is 100% true... but why does the clan got attacked in first place? I dont remember I saw the advanced gear in the clan's hideout? its only appears after I come home at the last mission. might it be taken later on like trophies?

Man, you have to play the game again and you will remember everything.

[Urthdigger]

I picked both (Killing Azai the first time, killing Ora on Newgame +), and both endings left me unsatisfied. With killing Azai, it seemed quite clear that I was the bad guy here. I'd been forewarned that the ink would drive me mad, and that those who were marked had to kill themselves before they destroyed the clan, and here I am convinced that not only Azai, but the whole clan needs to die for their treachery. Plus, what part of "listen to the voices in your head telling you to kill" sounds like a good idea?

However, killing Azai also left me feeling empty. There's no closure to what Azai did. I can kinda understand the whole honorable death thing, but in this case it feels like your death is helping to cover up the lies and betrayal of your master, and there is no honor in that.

[Zachdidit]

It was pretty clear cut between the good and bad ending for me. Killing yourself was by far the righteous path.The way I see it, everything that happens after you decide not to sacrifice yourself the first time is you slipping further into madness.

The very first intro movie shows you without a mark clearly stealing from the main antagonist's guards. Yes, the ninjas started it. Yes, your master is the blame for bringing the raid on the ninjas. But you were his blade. You were the one who did it. You think he's lying to you, because your alter ego is tempting you with some such about honor. Your master knew that the plants were dead and he did was was necessary to ensure the survival of the clan. Stealing technology that would allow them to compete in the 21st century.

The only breaking point I almost had with this conclusion was Dosen. I had already made up my mind during that amazing final walk hallucination scene. But when I saw Dosen's grave I almost wavered. The guy was kept in the dark. He saw the new technology as an affront to the tradition. He almost made me choose to kill the master. But then I remembered he was being tortured by bandits. Not ninja. And he was killed in the crossfire of the techno-nin chasing you. Heck even if they did aim for him, he was for all intents and purposes a traitor helping a mad man who could bring ruin to the clan (which you most certainly do if you listen to him)

What also helped me in the decision was that Orza's for sure an illusion. There's a lot of time when Orza's talking to you in your head. She's not there. But she's definitely talking. When you're playing, you don't think about it. It's a game. She's probably just off screen somewhere close. Nope. That was definitely deliberate. Play the first mission. Wait until you sneak past the guards at the first set of lights outside. She's no where near you and talking in your head. In essence she DID lie to you by leading you on.

I started to feel really off when I started killing those guards and they turned into ninja. I didn't notice it at first, but as soon as I did, I couldn't help but go the no kill approach. When Orza tells you to cleanse the whole clan at the end that moral issue was exasperated 10 fold. And

Finally and most importantly. Your master submits himself to you. That was huge for me. Any doubt I may have had was thrown out the window when he got on his knees. If he was truly power hungry and was taking the clan down the "dishonorable" path he wouldn't have given up. He wouldn't have trusted you'd come back around. He'd of called the whole clan down on you instead of simply walking away, telling you to take the blade, and make your decision.

[annieliorate]

Honestly? I killed myself just to kill the girl too. I was so sick of her chattering in my ear, giving me useless information with no way to shut her up, and finding out that she wasn't real after all cemented that.

Not nearly as deep as most other posts here, but it's what I did.