Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 3, 2013 @ 11:55pm
All-Stars Ruin Online
Continuing on from my Items Ruin Online Thread, I thought I'd start a thread about the one cheap item that stand above the rest.

Can someone explain to me why this game has a rating system and a win/loss ratio statistic, when All-Stars aren't distributed equally? Some people get it, some don't (notably, first place). In my case, a few minutes ago, I was a mile in first place, until someone playing as Joe Musashi got an All-Star just kept battering me with missiles, which took me back to the rest of the pack, where I had to endure the usual barrage of unavoidable snowballs & rockets. People go on about the Blue Shell in Mario Kart, and while I hate that too, I think this has become a lot worse (not to mention, some characters have it better than others).

We're obviously not going to get a no-items/no-bumps multiplayer mode (which is a joke), so can we at least have the win/loss stats removed? They're literally pointless considering player skill can only get you so far.
Last edited by OmegaTigerWoods; Apr 6, 2013 @ 4:17am
Showing 1-15 of 86 comments
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PeeJay Bonobo Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:11am 
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Only people who hack (looking at Perforated Soul) are able to win consistently.

Says the guy who relied on the rolling exploit to take 1st from me at Sanctuary Falls, that's first of all.
2nd, Perforated Soul doesn't hack. He's just a good player. That's why he's able to win consistently.
3rd, you obviously think one character is better than everyone else no matter what. I can't wait to see a tier list from you. And if that's the case, let's see if you can beat my Amigo/Acceleration in Burning Depths using Shadow/DreamCast Mod. I guarantee you, you'll be doing a lot of slowing down while I'm zipping through turns with no problems.
4th....
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
no-items
Try Lucky Dip, and 5th....
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
no-bumps
It's already been confirmed that the unusual physics is because of players with horrible connections. Either try to avoid them or try getting the Titanium Frame bonus.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Can someone explain to me why this game has a rating system and a win/loss ratio statistic
I never cared for that, and I think it's time you should stop. Just play the game and have fun.
Hymness Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:12am 
Hey, there could be a blue shell... ;)
psn_sega651 Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:16am 
In my experience, All-star and Swarm are used to try and keep the players in a more tightly packed group. (It’s no fun in a racing game when the top players are lapping everyone else and last place is lost in never never land) Players that fall behind, for whatever reason, tend to get all-stars more often. But all-stars are sometimes given to 3rd or 4th place when only 1-3 or 1 & 2 are getting too far ahead. And if many the top places start to pull away from the pack, Swarm tends to get given to other players very frequently.

Second, it is true that some players have higher or lower all-star stats, but that reflects gains/loss in their other stats. You can go for a player with an all-star stat of 1, and their other stats are higher than usual because of it.

Third, Snowballs and fireworks can be avoided if you’re extremely skilled. I mean, they're only a dummy fire weapon. If you’re getting hit every time, try not to drive in such a predictable way, i.e. a straight line. You become much harder to hit if you’re drifting. And since the game shows you the people close to you and what pickup they have, you should be able to know when you need to avoid a possible attack or not.

Fourth, the point system in the multiplayer isn't looking exclusively at what place you come in at; it's looking at how many skills, tricks, difficult weapon hits, etc. that you get. The score is an overall reflection of how skilled you are in the game. And the win/loss ratio is really only there for entertainment purposes. If you compare yourself to everyone else, their win/loss ratio is going to be low too. It's also nice to know because the game tells you how many times you've come in the top 3, and the win tells you how many times you've gotten 1st.

Fifth, there is a no item mode in the game already; it's called boost race, where there are no pickups at all. However, carts can still collide, But I don't see why this is a problem. In multiplayer, there are multiple players playing at the same time, and since you're all racing on the same track at the same time you’re going to hit each other sometimes. Otherwise if you just like driving on the course by yourself, go do time trial laps, which is essentially a 'no-items/no-bump' multiplayer

And finally, sixth, I realize that there are some hacking cheaters out on this game right now. However, the next update for this game will add VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat). Players who hack multiplayer after this update, will find themselves Banned from all multiplayer forever (sometimes only the game that the ban was on, and sometimes from all multiplayer on VAC games). There is no way to reverse the VAC ban. Please note however, that VAC tends to wait a few weeks to ban these players, so that they also tell all of their hacking friends that the hack works and how to use it, so that they get band too. Also, band people get a permanent mark on their Steam account telling everyone that they are VAC band, Their name will be red in most places it appears. People in the community tend to shun such players, refusing to trade with them, ect. So I assure you that the hacking problem will be fixed with the next update, and that Justice will be swift for these people.
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:24am 
Originally posted by PeeJay Bonobo:
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Only people who hack (looking at Perforated Soul) are able to win consistently.

Says the guy who relied on the rolling exploit to take 1st from me at Sanctuary Falls, that's first of all.
2nd, Perforated Soul doesn't hack. He's just a good player. That's why he's able to win consistently.
3rd, you obviously think one character is better than everyone else no matter what. I can't wait to see a tier list from you. And if that's the case, let's see if you can beat my Amigo/Acceleration in Burning Depths using Shadow/DreamCast Mod. I guarantee you, you'll be doing a lot of slowing down while I'm zipping through turns with no problems.
4th....
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
no-items
Try Lucky Dip, and 5th....
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
no-bumps
It's already been confirmed that the unusual physics is because of players with horrible connections. Either try to avoid them or try getting the Titanium Frame bonus.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Can someone explain to me why this game has a rating system and a win/loss ratio statistic
I never cared for that, and I think it's time you should stop. Just play the game and have fun.

Sore loser much? I roll because I can, and it adds a competitive edge to the game cause it requires skill. Not to mention, you hit me with a blowfish that deflected off the wall in the air right before the finish line which nearly cost me (and I have recorded proof).

As for Perforated Soul, I don't believe in winning consistently in this game. Skills can only get you so far, and won't help you against a Joe Musashi/Ages All-Star.

As for characters, are you an idiot? I said some characters have it much better than others in terms of All-Star Power. Give me Joe Musashi's Homing Missiles over Ralph's Chain-Ball every day of the week.

As for Lucky Dip, never seen anyone play it, end of.

As for bumps, why can't there be a mode where there are no collisions?

As for win/loss stats, I honestly don't care what you think, I'm the one confused why they're even there in a game where the difference between getting an All-Star & not getting one has a bigger impact on your placing than pure skill.
Hymness Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:31am 
Hey, you're playing a karting game, if you prefer plain simulation, go for another game. Items are part of this kind of games, some are more powerful than others.

If you get frustrated everytime somebody passes you near the end because of an all-star, maybe you should stop playing. It happens, it will happen.

Skill is important, but it's just a part of the game.
J^P Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:34am 
have to agree on all-stars, and on some characters, its quite OP, like some are just AOE(knuckles, metal sonic etc), some are short-range (sonic, reala) and long-range (joe, team fortress, ages etc) and just OP (eggman) compared to ones with AOE or short-range.

But Id say glithes and bugs and some online problems are bigger issue, like getting DNF when you finish race(goes to 4th lap), getting stuck as boat/plane on normal road after transform ring, flying all-over the place just by slightly hitting someone etc.
Last edited by J^P; Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:40am
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:42am 
Originally posted by psn_sega651:
In my experience, All-star and Swarm are used to try and keep the players in a more tightly packed group. (It’s no fun in a racing game when the top players are lapping everyone else and last place is lost in never never land) Players that fall behind, for whatever reason, tend to get all-stars more often. But all-stars are sometimes given to 3rd or 4th place when only 1-3 or 1 & 2 are getting too far ahead. And if many the top places start to pull away from the pack, Swarm tends to get given to other players very frequently.

Second, it is true that some players have higher or lower all-star stats, but that reflects gains/loss in their other stats. You can go for a player with an all-star stat of 1, and their other stats are higher than usual because of it.

Third, Snowballs and fireworks can be avoided if you’re extremely skilled. I mean, they're only a dummy fire weapon. If you’re getting hit every time, try not to drive in such a predictable way, i.e. a straight line. You become much harder to hit if you’re drifting. And since the game shows you the people close to you and what pickup they have, you should be able to know when you need to avoid a possible attack or not.

Fourth, the point system in the multiplayer isn't looking exclusively at what place you come in at; it's looking at how many skills, tricks, difficult weapon hits, etc. that you get. The score is an overall reflection of how skilled you are in the game. And the win/loss ratio is really only there for entertainment purposes. If you compare yourself to everyone else, their win/loss ratio is going to be low too. It's also nice to know because the game tells you how many times you've come in the top 3, and the win tells you how many times you've gotten 1st.

Fifth, there is a no item mode in the game already; it's called boost race, where there are no pickups at all. However, carts can still collide, But I don't see why this is a problem. In multiplayer, there are multiple players playing at the same time, and since you're all racing on the same track at the same time you’re going to hit each other sometimes. Otherwise if you just like driving on the course by yourself, go do time trial laps, which is essentially a 'no-items/no-bump' multiplayer

And finally, sixth, I realize that there are some hacking cheaters out on this game right now. However, the next update for this game will add VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat). Players who hack multiplayer after this update, will find themselves Banned from all multiplayer forever (sometimes only the game that the ban was on, and sometimes from all multiplayer on VAC games). There is no way to reverse the VAC ban. Please note however, that VAC tends to wait a few weeks to ban these players, so that they also tell all of their hacking friends that the hack works and how to use it, so that they get band too. Also, band people get a permanent mark on their Steam account telling everyone that they are VAC band, Their name will be red in most places it appears. People in the community tend to shun such players, refusing to trade with them, ect. So I assure you that the hacking problem will be fixed with the next update, and that Justice will be swift for these people.

Sorry, but the first paragraph conflicts with the fourth. Entertainment purposes doesn't really justify having them in plain sight.

If you think items like Swam and All-Stars are appropriate in order to keep races tight and more exciting, that's perfectly fine, and you're entitled to your opinion, but I believe the person who races the best should always win, and because of that, I'd like to see an alternative (not lucky dip, I'll get to that in a sec)

As for point 2, Shadow & Team Fortress have the exact same stats... except Team Fortress's All Star is 4 star (homing missiles) in comparison to Shadow's measly 1. Football Manager, NiGHTS & Knuckles have the exact same stats, except the latter's All Star is one whereas the former 2 both have 3.

As for Snowballs, no, dodging them is not possible. You can erratically swirve to make yourself more difficult to hit when you know the guy behind you has one, but that will help you only so much.

As for the Point System, I'm not sure that's true. There have been races where I do absolutely nothing wrong and everything right, but end up losing 100 points simply for the amount of times I get bombarded.

As for Boost Race, that's an option in Lucky Dip, amoing an array of other options. Nevermind the fact that I can't play Boost Race any time in Lucky Dip, nobody plays that mode period. As for bumps, you may not have experienced it, but it's possible to get bumped 200 meters backwards (happened to me once at Sunshine Tour), not to mention, they can thump you straight into walls, mucking you up for the rest of the race. Sticking to Time Trials isn't an option either, because I'd rather be racing against others in real time, & the enviornments don't change over laps in time trial (heck there aren't even any obstacles).
Last edited by OmegaTigerWoods; Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:49am
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:44am 
Originally posted by Hymness:
Hey, you're playing a karting game, if you prefer plain simulation, go for another game. Items are part of this kind of games, some are more powerful than others.

If you get frustrated everytime somebody passes you near the end because of an all-star, maybe you should stop playing. It happens, it will happen.

Skill is important, but it's just a part of the game.
Sick of posts like these. Name me one other game that offers an arcade-style karting game experience with crazy tracks, drifting & boost pads, but without any items.
Last edited by OmegaTigerWoods; Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:45am
PeeJay Bonobo Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:49am 
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Sore loser much? I roll because I can, and it adds a competitive edge to the game cause it requires skill. Not to mention, you hit me with a blowfish that deflected off the wall in the air right before the finish line which nearly cost me (and I have recorded proof).
It may require skill, but it has already been confirmed as an exploit. Have fun with the next patch.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
As for Perforated Soul, I don't believe in winning consistently in this game. Skills can only get you so far, and won't help you against a Joe Musashi/Ages All-Star.
Says the guy who just said they can use the rolling exploit because they got skill. There is, however, only one thing I agree with you on when it comes to winning consistently, and that is the simple fact that everyone has a loss count of more than zero on their record. Even I can beat Perforated Soul. And that's because he doesn't win every race.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
As for characters, are you an idiot? I said some characters have it much better than others in terms of All-Star Power. Give me Joe Musashi's Homing Missiles over Ralph's Chain-Ball every day of the week.
While Joe Musashi's All-Star can hit up to three opponents from a distance, Ralph's can hit anyone surrounding him, even if it's all nine of his opponents. Some all-stars are good for some situations, and others are good for others. For example, if you're lucky enough to carry your All-Star to 4th place (as Gum), and you see a 3-way fight for 1st, you could just take first and spam broken hearts to your heart's content.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
As for Lucky Dip, never seen anyone play it, end of.
Because you're picking the wrong times to play Lucky Dip. People do play Lucky Dip from time to time. You just gotta be there at the right time.

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
As for bumps, why can't there be a mode where there are no collisions?
Unless it's Time Trial mode, a race is not a race if you can drive through your opponents, but then again, it depends on what you mean by "no collisions." Normalized, or non-existant?

Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
As for win/loss stats, I honestly don't care what you think, I'm the one confused why they're even there in a game where the difference between getting an All-Star & not getting one has a bigger impact on your placing than pure skill.
Actually, I've been in quite a few situations where my All-Star made no difference in trying to get back in the race, and yet, that's exactly what the All-Star is for, getting back in the race. Would you rather spend the rest of the race in last place because you got item-♥♥♥♥♥ by the other nine, or would you rather find a way to get back in the race?
I've also been in situations where I had to fight for 1st without the use of an All-Star. I don't have a problem pushing through the pack without an All-Star, and trust me when I tell you this: my luck is so crappy that my chances of getting an All-Star are extremely slim.
PrimeSonic Apr 4, 2013 @ 5:53am 
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
Sore loser much? I roll because I can, and it adds a competitive edge to the game cause it requires skill.
Yeah, that's gone in the next patch too. If you try to roll exploit, you'll come to a full stop.

As for Perforated Soul, I don't believe in winning consistently in this game. Skills can only get you so far, and won't help you against a Joe Musashi/Ages All-Star.
Homing missiles are for nothing when you're so far ahead you can't be reached. Also, it doesn't happen nearly as frequently as you make it sound.

As for characters, are you an idiot? I said some characters have it much better than others in terms of All-Star Power. Give me Joe Musashi's Homing Missiles over Ralph's Chain-Ball every day of the week.
Yes. The All-Star stat tells you just how powerful the all-star attack is. Yes, some are better than others. No, you can't expect an All-Star whenever you want so it's usually best to play as if you were never going to get it.

As for Lucky Dip, never seen anyone play it, end of.
This is sad and mostly true. The players that want to play Lucky Dip friend-list each other and will round up a few people for a game or will post to the forums when someone is hosting one so others will know to get in too.

As for bumps, why can't there be a mode where there are no collisions?
There is one already. It's called Time Attack.

As for win/loss stats, I honestly don't care what you think, I'm the one confused why they're even there in a game where the difference between getting an All-Star & not getting one has a bigger impact on your placing than pure skill.
Sorry, but I'm calling BS there. I win far more often than not and place top 3 almost every single time. There's a handful of people that I know that are better than me and when I meet them online, they are the ones that really give me hell and are likely to beat me.

Skill really does play a huge factor. You won't ever have noobies beating experts. Not to mention the fact that sometimes you can get an all-star and have it not advance your position at all, or even hurt your position if it wears off at the worst moment.

Knowledge of the track, stunt boosting, proper drifts, the racing line, and knowing how to defend against and avoid most items means a lot more than getting an All-Star.
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:10am 
Originally posted by PeeJay Bonobo:
It may require skill, but it has already been confirmed as an exploit. Have fun with the next patch.
Won't be shedding any tears champ.

Says the guy who just said they can use the rolling exploit because they got skill. There is, however, only one thing I agree with you on when it comes to winning consistently, and that is the simple fact that everyone has a loss count of more than zero on their record. Even I can beat Perforated Soul. And that's because he doesn't win every race.
The reason I suspect he's hacking is because when I've played with him, it feels like he's going faster than he should, and seems to avoid getting mauled by items at the start of every race. There's good, & then there's too good.

While Joe Musashi's All-Star can hit up to three opponents from a distance, Ralph's can hit anyone surrounding him, even if it's all nine of his opponents. Some all-stars are good for some situations, and others are good for others. For example, if you're lucky enough to carry your All-Star to 4th place (as Gum), and you see a 3-way fight for 1st, you could just take first and spam broken hearts to your heart's content.
Sorry, but you can't put a spin on this. Every man and his dog would take Joe Musashi's All-Star over everyone elses, because it works perfectly in any situation, as opposed to Ralph's, which is only really effective in disgusting narrow tracks like Grafitti City.

Because you're picking the wrong times to play Lucky Dip. People do play Lucky Dip from time to time. You just gotta be there at the right time.
So you expect me to get up at 4am in the morning to play just because all the seppos are on? You need to realize that some people have different time zones.

Not to mention, the mode is called 'Lucky Dip' for a reason, as opposed to 'Boost Race'. Take a wild guess why.
Unless it's Time Trial mode, a race is not a race if you can drive through your opponents
Why not? It's not conventional, but still a race nonetheless

Actually, I've been in quite a few situations where my All-Star made no difference in trying to get back in the race, and yet, that's exactly what the All-Star is for, getting back in the race. Would you rather spend the rest of the race in last place because you got item-♥♥♥♥♥ by the other nine, or would you rather find a way to get back in the race?
I've also been in situations where I had to fight for 1st without the use of an All-Star. I don't have a problem pushing through the pack without an All-Star, and trust me when I tell you this: my luck is so crappy that my chances of getting an All-Star are extremely slim.
If I lose because the other player is better than me, that's absolutely fair enough, even if I get belted.

If I lose because of homing missiles, I end up pulling my hairs out and feel inclined to moan about it on the boards.
PrimeSonic Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:22am 
Originally posted by OmegaTigerWoods:
If I lose because the other player is better than me, that's absolutely fair enough, even if I get belted.

If I lose because of homing missiles, I end up pulling my hairs out and feel inclined to moan about it on the boards.
I understand you on this very much. I share that feeling of near yelling at the screen that "he did not deserve that win".
So I really do get what you're saying when that is the case. I'm with you on it.

I just get over it quickly and don't complain on the forums about it.
Last edited by PrimeSonic; Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:25am
Neeku Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:28am 
Friendly tip: Joe's/AGES' All-Star can be easily avoided if you drive in a curvy line.

I never have problems with All-Stars because I'm usually far enough ahead to have no problems. I can vouch for Perforated Soul because I've raced with him frequently. He just plays a TON. I think he's close to 200 hours driving time.

Also, fire up a Dream Valley single race and tell me your time. Dream Valley is probably the most skill-based map. If you're fast enough, you will never see the CPUs.
Last edited by Neeku; Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:34am
psn_sega651 Apr 4, 2013 @ 6:12pm 
Well, I can see that logic has no place in your mind, you are both ignorant and unable to listen to reason, or a subspecies of internutus fomus Trollius.

Either way I say we stop feeding the troll's and let this thread, and others like it, die.
OmegaTigerWoods Apr 4, 2013 @ 8:51pm 
Originally posted by psn_sega651:
Well, I can see that logic has no place in your mind, you are both ignorant and unable to listen to reason, or a subspecies of internutus fomus Trollius.

Either way I say we stop feeding the troll's and let this thread, and others like it, die.
Get a load of this, people. There's been nothing but fair argument in this thread until this dweeb feels inclined to post. Did you contribute anything to the discussion? Nope. Did you prove what an absolute muppett you are? Absolutely.

Go to sleep, preb.
Last edited by OmegaTigerWoods; Apr 4, 2013 @ 8:52pm
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Date Posted: Apr 3, 2013 @ 11:55pm
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