C9 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Just for you :) Mar 13, 2014 @ 5:50pm
Combat PvP used to be fun - before PvP became HEAVILY Pay To Win. (OR Grind 1000 hours to win)
There's no system in place to remove overpowered gears from PvP.
So the person who plays the most PvE usually will come out on top in PvP even if all they're doing is button mashing.

The PvP was decent a while ago (Lag issues were a problem, but minimal gear imbalances)
Now PvP is unplayable. Classes will literally 2 shot you.

Only play this game if you Enjoy Hours among Hours of PvE for no reason.
There's literally no benefit to doing PvE other than getting more gear. But for what reason? An endless cycle of PvE. Get Best Gear --> Wait for new gear to be released, grind another 1000 hours.

DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME FOR THE PVP, IT'S A TIME SINK FOR NEW PLAYERS.
AND IT"S NOT REWARDING.

(Neither is the PvE IMO, but some people just play PvE to get pretty costumes)



Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
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seniorpavlentiy Mar 14, 2014 @ 12:41pm 
I havnt seen a single one ftp game which wouldn't became pay to win with time.Its a sad fate of all ftp games
[BnB] Trutsumi Mar 15, 2014 @ 11:33pm 
-_- You realize this IS an action MMO meaning gear does not mean everything. I've beaten many people with some of the most OP gear I've ever seen with just a good set of souls and cheap perfect grade stuff. Everything is a factor in this game, but your skill is what will matter the most. Though I do wish this game had an equalize option like in Dragon Nest. But right now, you should just try to fight with what you got.
Just for you :) Mar 16, 2014 @ 3:58pm 
Yes, I do realize skill can overcome gear.
And I have beaten those with very overpowered gear.
But that doesn't make the game fun when you have to try much harder than other players just to beat them.

I main assassin and it takes a lot of combos to kill someone.
With combo drops (in lag) being a huge issue, on top of other classes like ranger/shade ele/shadow/BD being able to kill you in under 10 seconds, this game is pretty broken in PvP.

Shade Eles tanking like Guardians with Player Res & Mana shield, while doing more damage than a warden.

No point in mastering a hard class when you can play an easier one that doesn't require combos but can kill people in under 5 skills.

What is your IGN deity?
Last edited by Just for you :); Mar 16, 2014 @ 3:58pm
Phoenix (yes, another one) Mar 19, 2014 @ 5:20pm 
This game was not designed around PvP, it's just an option on the side for people to mess around with. From the first time you tried it, you should have realized that PvE made a difference in PvP, and if that wasn't what you were after, you should have quit then and there if PvP was all you really wanted to do with the game. It's a given with these games that over time they'll increase the level cap, add more items to gain, new classes, and so on. The result of all that, especially when PvP was only designed as something on the side, should have been painfully obvious to anyone. Yet I keep seeing these complaints in games from people that only wanted to PvP in the game, and often enough the people making them when they do quit, wander off to some other new game with the same issues, only to make the same complaints later for that game, and so on. Did it ever occur to you that the game isn't really the problem, but that you're trying to get something out of it, that it wasn't really made for?
Just for you :) Mar 20, 2014 @ 5:45pm 
Phoenix, Pre-50+ Cap release - Gear was pretty balanced and PvP was a blast.
some slight class imbalances but it wasn't huge.
Over-Farming in PvE pre 50+ cap wasn't going to help you as much as it can now.

So no, It wasn't something someone could see from the first time they played it.

Yes, you might consider PvP to be a side-feature but a lot of players don't. (As you can see from these forums about how many people are backing up how great the PvP is in this game, despite what webzen has done to it)

Is it really so hard to add a feature that lets you have an OPTION to remove PvE-gear from PvP and have a standard set in PvP?
Games progress over time - I don't see why such a feature cannot be implemented.
(Doesn't DragonNest have it?)

For the record, I still play C9 PvP occasionally and nearly all of my friends ONLY return to it for the PvP in hopes that it will be fixed one day.

But that doesn't change the fact that I absolutely DO NOT RECOMMEND this game to new players if ALL they're interested is in PvP.

All I'm doing is addressing the question that new players might have if they're only interested in the PvP and not interested in grinding a thousand hours to keep up with those who buy gold or have already been playing years before them.

What fun is it for a new player if they see they have to farm like crazy or buy wcoins just to be able to fight equally with those who have been playing longer than them?

I'm just giving them a heads up.
There are games out there with PvE as it's main focus yet doesn't make PvP completely imbalanced.

Just because PvP isn't the main focus of the game (As you say) doesn't mean they should enitrely disregard balancing it and keep those who are interested in it happy.

They're still active players after all.



Last edited by Just for you :); Mar 20, 2014 @ 5:46pm
Phoenix (yes, another one) Mar 26, 2014 @ 3:45pm 
Various other games have had a PvP system where your character in PvP, could be wildly different than in PvE, with you being given a level cap character, the skills left open for you to assign, and everyone gets default gear to pick from. C9 doesn't, all it really does is drop the effect of enhancements on equipment, and adjust skill effects. It's common for online games to over time add really powerful gear, with all sorts of stats. If all you want to do is PvP in a game, and it doesn't separate PvP, and PvE completely, don't even start playing as you can bet the same thing you're complaining about will happen there in time.

People tend to associate with like minded people, so you saying things like "everyone I know only really play for the PvP" or what not doesn't really mean much. In the survey results they showed a while back only 9% indicated they wanted PvP changes as the thing they wanted changed the most, almost half were related to dungeons, and the rest in other things like bugs and network stability. Then in other online games I've played I'd see the same sort of thing you're saying from the PvP crowd, although even when there were a good number of people playing, the PvP didn't run that well as not enough people were looking to do it, vs doing PvE content. The PvP community in a game while certainly smaller, just tends to be really loud, and on the forums all the time.

Don't try to claim you wrote this to help others out, what you wrote is just so limited in scope, and information that it's not going to be of much help. Then how is this pay to win? Every free to play game sells some degree of advantage in the cash shop, varying from storage, and temporary buffs, to some of the best equipment in the game. C9 is pretty good compared to various other games of this type when it comes to the cash shop. The closest they come really are souls, but the bonuses on those aren't all that large, so are nice to have, but you can do without. Based on what you wrote, your idea of this being pay to win is as you can buy stuff in the cash shop, sell it in the auction house to others for in-game currency, then use that to buy good equipment people are selling that came from dungeons or crafting. Games like this, Borderlands, Diablo, and so on have loot gathering as a major aspect to the game, yet it seems you don't like that, it just feels like you were trying to play this for the wrong reasons.
Just for you :) Mar 26, 2014 @ 4:21pm 
Yes, Naturally as games increase the level cap new gears come out and so on. That doesn't necessarily mean they should be broken like Epics/Uniques are.

I'm fine with getting the next tier of gear, and it's not the armor I'm complaining about.
It's the player resistance, unique weapons and unique necklaces (and sometimes auspices)

Have you even seen the stats on unique weapons and know how hard they are to get for a normal player?

It is down to complete luck, OR buying wcoins, selling for gold then buying your unique from a person lucky enough to find one.
(I have quite a few guildies who actually do this, sell wcoins all day - save up 500m then buy a unique)

I'm currently in a very active PvE guild and the only people rich enough to get the best gears are those who buy gold from sites or wcoins.

You can PvE for months and not achieve the same things someone who spends 500-1,000$ can in a day.

I actually have friends who have sold their uniques for 500-700$.


I'm fine with them adding more levels and next-tier gear cause those alone are fine.
But even if I were a pure PvE player it would takes months of farming to compete with someone who can buy it all in a day.

New Auspice - 100-150m
Uniques - 200-700m (x2)
Full Sabrina Soul Set - 100-200m
Attack Stones - 35m(x3)

There is currently no good way to make a lot of gold in farming PvE all day. Unless you get extremely lucky.

You keep saying I chose to play this for the wrong reasons yet I have enjoyed its gameplay from the beginning.
I chose to play this game because the gameplay was different from the many other MMOs i've played and the PvP was on a very different level from those games.

As I said earlier, c9 started off great - and became considerably worse over time.
I've played this since beta and continue to do so (just less these days).

I complain not because I hate the game but because I wish they'd make changes.
But we all know what kind of a company webzen is now.
So all I can do is tell people not to waste their time.

Both PvE and PvP are unrewarding.
Unless I suppose if you play solo and ignore everyone around you.
(Which, I'm guessing is what you do. Since you seem to be so far out of the loop and think this is the perfect game? That, or you're with webzen trying to keep promoting this game to milk this cow dry before it dies.

Seriously, who are you? All your posts are Pro-Webzen and It's like you're a GM on the forums helping everyone with C9-Related questions and defending and belittling anyone who has a complaint towards C9.)

Last edited by Just for you :); Mar 26, 2014 @ 4:44pm
Phoenix (yes, another one) Apr 1, 2014 @ 10:12am 
Originally posted by Evia:
Have you even seen the stats on unique weapons and know how hard they are to get for a normal player?

It is down to complete luck, OR buying wcoins, selling for gold then buying your unique from a person lucky enough to find one.
(I have quite a few guildies who actually do this, sell wcoins all day - save up 500m then buy a unique)
It's not uncommon for games of this type, where you're expected to farm for stuff, to have very rare items as something the player hopes to get, but really shouldn't expect to get, which is why it's so special when you do get them. That's the case with uniques in C9, and you just flat out confirmed what I assumed your idea of pay to win was. What you're demonstrating is one of the general problems of the PvP fanatics in particular, they get so fixated on the existence of something that can provide some advantage, that they then insist that it's a necessity to have it. Their fixation on this something they were never expected to normally get ends up ruining their own enjoyment of the game as a result.

Epics, and uniques come from in-game actions, with no direct connection to the cash shop, you can't call a game having something like that an example of pay to win, no matter how rare they are. Pay to win is when it is expected, or required for you to get it, yet it comes directly from the cash shop, or has in-game mechanics preventing you from getting it without something from the cash shop. That is not the case here, uniques are just very rare items you're not actually expected to get, and can do without. Epics are not common, but as the steady flow of acquisition notices during more peak times show, they're not that incredibly rare either.


Originally posted by Evia:
I'm fine with them adding more levels and next-tier gear cause those alone are fine.
But even if I were a pure PvE player it would takes months of farming to compete with someone who can buy it all in a day.
PvE is player vs environment, you don't compete with other players, that's PvP. There can be competitive PvE of a sorts, but C9 doesn't have that, the idea you're "competing" with others in PvE is an idea of your own making. I play games to have fun, I don't care what others have, and don't feel the encroachment of the cash shop on my game play in C9. Being overly concerned with what some random person out there has, that you don't in-game, and in real life is just a bad idea overall, being able to be happy with what you have, and can reasonably get is important, you'll just destroy yourself if you insist on having everything.

You don't need uniques to do well, skill, and reasonably accessible while still quite decent gear will pull you through most things solo just fine, the rest you team up for if it proves too much for you. If this was something like Warframe where they flat out sell you the equipment you're expected to get in the cash shop, you'd have a point, but that's not the case here. Games that have an auction house using the cash shop currency for player trades, rather than the in-game currency are another issue, Warframe pretty much has that too.

Any game with cash shop items that can be traded will have some people buying those, so they can sell them for in-game currency, some games like Wildstar are using that as an intended mechanic. Depending on what is sold there's nothing really wrong with that. Although some people that defend games that outright sell some of the best stuff as cash shop exclusives try to use how you can buy them in the auction house with in-game currency from those that got them in the cash shop as a reason why it's supposedly not pay to win. That's as much a form of twisted logic as what you're trying to claim.


Originally posted by Evia:
You keep saying I chose to play this for the wrong reasons yet I have enjoyed its gameplay from the beginning.
I chose to play this game because the gameplay was different from the many other MMOs i've played and the PvP was on a very different level from those games.
You keep going on and on about what other people have, and what they are doing. Why, what difference does it make what they have? I play to have fun, if people want to do whatever it is they do, so long as it does not interfere with me, I don't care, why should you?

Then C9, and the like are not MMOs, nor does Webzen call it such, it's just an online multiplayer game, if you played Diablo II through Battle.net, it'd be the same thing for the most part. This is a peer to peer based game, which is why it's functionally different from MMOs. The closest MMO to something like C9 I know of is TERA, yet even that's functionally different, as it can't work the same way as a peer to peer game like C9 when the servers need to manage all the actions of everything, and everyone. They're two different things, so of course they can provide different experiences.

Originally posted by Evia:
As I said earlier, c9 started off great - and became considerably worse over time.
I've played this since beta and continue to do so (just less these days).
This game was released in 2009 in Korea, and 2012 over here, it's not new, and I doubt you've been playing from the actual beginning, nor would it even matter if you did. If you look at it as a PvE game, which it is, there's nothing really wrong with it, where people complain about equipment is in PvP, which is just a side thought in this game.

Originally posted by Evia:
I complain not because I hate the game but because I wish they'd make changes.
But we all know what kind of a company webzen is now.
So all I can do is tell people not to waste their time.
Except they are making changes. Lately they've been making some rather good efforts to ask for player feedback, then making adjustments to the game based on the feedback by players, perhaps not just those in one region, but perhaps combined. They've also been discussing future changes, giving better patch notes, changed the maintenance time, are dealing with tickets more quickly, and their overall interaction with the community over the past few months have improved considerably. Are they perfect, no, no company, or person is, but I've seen far worse, take a look at how badly Perfect World Entertainment has been handling Rusty Hearts, especially since year ago as a for instance.

Originally posted by Evia:
Both PvE and PvP are unrewarding.
Unless I suppose if you play solo and ignore everyone around you.
(Which, I'm guessing is what you do. Since you seem to be so far out of the loop and think this is the perfect game? That, or you're with webzen trying to keep promoting this game to milk this cow dry before it dies.
I play the game to have fun. As with any game I'll either play on my own, or with people I want to play with. If you just play with whoever, you all too often end up with people you'd want to punch, rather than be glad for their interaction. This is the same for any multiplayer game.

Originally posted by Evia:
Seriously, who are you? All your posts are Pro-Webzen and It's like you're a GM on the forums helping everyone with C9-Related questions and defending and belittling anyone who has a complaint towards C9.)
Seriously, who are you? All I see is you come out of no where, and do nothing but complain about things that generally don't make sense, or are unreasonable. That's the issue I have with the likes of you, if you want to make complaints with merit, that's fine, but using the kind of twisted logic you're using, is absurd. Then you're honestly complaining to me about my trying to be helpful, really?!

This is a public forum, I come around when I have time, if I feel like it, and respond to what I choose to, for my own sake, I'm not getting anything from anyone for doing so. I have no desire to be a GM, or one of their official player helpers (VLs), too much bother, I just want to have fun with the game. By going in the direction you did here at the end, it comes off as childish really. Instead of debating on facts, you've resorted to make believe, and accusations. I've never said Webzen, or C9 are perfect, but compare to other games of it's type, I prefer C9, so I play it. Compare to other free to play companies, and the cash shops they use in their games, Webzen has been doing pretty good, especially since the start of 2014, so I'm fine with them. It's as simple as that.
Last edited by Phoenix (yes, another one); Apr 1, 2014 @ 10:30am
Just for you :) Apr 2, 2014 @ 12:47am 
Hm, a few things.

1. Our Thoughts on Pay2Win differ greatly, as I play multiplayer online games to play with others. Where as it seems you'd be fine if playing this game even if there were no other players but yourself.
So to you, Pay2Win just doesn't make sense - because everything you enjoy in C9 can be done with you alone and no one else (or atleast thats how I interpreted what you wrote, correct me if i'm wrong)

For me, and many others we play to compete. Progress to the highest level of PvE and PvP with our friends and that requires the best of gears. (Round 20 of Survival, good gear is a must)

2. It just boggles my mind how you can enjoy this game solo in PvE, out of all the great games out there with a good story, interesting quests and what not. C9 it's go fetch this from the monsters in this dungeon, run around talk to all these npcs.

Can you share with me what you enjoy so much in that?
I understand that the combat is interesting (cause that's what I enjoy about c9, but the repetitive PvE just makes me sick)
I'm genuinely curious.

So many great games on steam, yet you choose C9's horrible PvE - ridiculously stupid story, it all feels like a gigantic chore with nothing interesting other than progressing your characters to a higher level.

4.
I also was genuinely curious, as to WHO you are.
What server you play on, EU / US / SEA - and what your IGNs are / guild etc.
I didn't mean to come off as, Who are you and why are you making these comments as a nobody.

5.
You're truly the first I've seen that was satisfied with webzen.
I know many of the VL's on the US server and none of them are satisfied with webzen.
I'm not sure how long you've been with webzen, but from what i've seen things are not great at all.

Were you around when their other games weren't profiting enough and shut down abruptly?

Or when they released a 90$ Package with costumes you couldn't buy at a lower price?
Catering to only the big spenders.

Rogue-GM selling uniques on SEA server for real life cash?

Rogue-Forum Moderators completely KILLING the forums, all old posts wiped.
Old Accounts banned and unrestored to this day?
They even continually announced that C9 was shutting down forcing webzen to make an announcement on the main page multiple times, to let them people know the forums had been compromised.

There was even a case on the US server that I personally know to be true regarding GM-created uniques going freely into players hands for no cost because I was there personally to view it.

Listen, I'm sorry if I've come off aggressive at times - I think our mind-set is just a bit too different on gaming in general, particularly multiplayer online games and trying to understand your mindset is a bit of a struggle for me.

For me, personally if I wanted to play a well-made game with great PvE or PvAI - I'd definitely be rather playing a singleplayer game where their whole focus is presentation and keeping the fun factor until the game is finished.

Generally i've found Multiplayer online games to never do this as well as a singleplayer game can because of resource allocation. There's just too much invested in the multiplayer aspect that everything else lacks refinement. (Take a look at the new Elder Scrolls Online, vs Oblivion/Skyrim, and you might see what I mean)

Thus, I ONLY play multiplayer online games to play with others and disregard proper game quality because of that reason.

If C9 was a singleplayer game I probably would have played it for a week and been done with it.

Honestly though, I don't feel like i can make any argument with you because i'm active with the community - listen to what everyone is saying on forums, know who the active VL's/Players/Youtubers are.

and their complaints are just like mine.
(We, all play this MMO for the community-aspect, playing with others, competing against others, so P2W is a big factor to us)

If it was a stand-alone game to play alone, I'm pretty certain none of the VL's/Youtubers that I know of would still be playing this game at all.

I kind of pegged you in my mind as an older gamer who likely is just satisfied with playing anything these days because back in your day nothing of such quality existed.
Which is understandable, I'd probably feel the same way if i were you.

But as a MMO(Massively Multiplayer Online) gamer since 2000
I've noticed a severe lack of content-quality, but an increase in overall game development.
(The game is shinier, but the core of the game doesn't stand to the level of content older-less pretty games had)
Because of that I try to avoid MMOs, and almost never play them anymore.
(C9 has been my only MMO since 2007)

So in the end, I see nothing wrong with me sharing my experiences with others on the game and what my idea of P2W is.
Which in many MMO communities I've been apart of always shared the same view on it.

It's not just being able to buy overpowered gear in the cash shop alone, but the idea of being able to sell the money you spend within the game and gain advantages over those who don't spend money. ( one such advantage - saving time )

So gamers like myself, who might be interested in trying a new MMO to play for the community would absolutely not be interested in a game where spending money saves you a lot more time than those who don't spend money.

And when C9 first came out, that definitely wasn't the case.
Cash Shop was fair. Purely cosmetic, small stat changes (prelude souls).
Hell even the new wings of teleporting around town I'd consider to be a great cash shop item.
(minus the 2% atk power increase)

But as of now, C9 is most definitely Pay To Win in my opinion - and in the opinion of those who share the same view on what Pay to Win means.

Sorry for the Novel.
This will be my last post as I see it is pointless to argue over perspective.
You're more lenient in what you enjoy in games, and pay to win has no meaning in the way you play the game.

Also, I gotta abandon this thread now that some annoying active c9 forum posters have now seen this thread and might start questioning my sources.

Keep on truckin phoenix, if you like the game - more power to you.






Last edited by Just for you :); Apr 2, 2014 @ 3:36am
[BnB] Trutsumi Apr 21, 2014 @ 5:52pm 
Damn I haven't replied in a long time. But my IGN is TruLustress
Phoenix (yes, another one) Apr 23, 2014 @ 12:52pm 
I'm going to prefix this with an observation. In game forums you see various people that get classified as "white knights." These are irrational people that come up with absurd ways to defend a game, developer, and/or publisher, plus often attack those saying anything even remotely against the game, developer, and/or publisher. What I've seen is that there also exists reverse white knights, black knights if you will. These are irrational people that come up with absurd ways to try to bash a game, developer, and/or publisher, plus attack those saying anything even remotely in favour of the game, developer, and/or publisher. Both are really annoying and have too much time on their hands.



1. The game expects you to use items around rare to a most master grade, those are completely doable through general game play, it may take a while, but it can be done. If you were to compare the same sort of thing in a game like Warframe, you'd find a very different result, there the game expects you to completely no-life it, or just open your wallet to over come the pathetically small success chance to get stuff it does expect you to get. You're expecting to get the most uncommon grade there is, unique grade, most, as I think you even said at one point, will at best only get one of those items. Playing with others or not doesn't matter, in fact, playing with others makes it easier, as if you're on your own you have a far greater need for the best of the best stuff, than if you play with others when doing the same content. You're although expecting to get stuff you should have no reason to expect to get, then when you of course can't effectively get it, claim pay to win. Meanwhile people can, and have been able to do very well without unique grade weapons. Most of the people I've noticed with them rented them from a warehouse NPC using adventure coins gained by doing achievements.

Your claim for pay to win is far too broad. Many online games let you buy misc items from the cash shop, and sell them to others in the auction house for in-game currency, Wildstar is even marketing that capacity in relation to their payment model for play time. What you're trying to claim makes C9 pay to win basically boils down to if it offers any pay advantage, it's pay to win. Although under that definition every F2P game, and even various pay to play, and buy to play games are pay to win. That's why it doesn't work, it encompasses pretty near every online game, and at that point the classification loses all meaning. What needs to be looked at is the degree of advantage, not if there is one of any kind. The degree of advantage gained from paying real money is fairly low, so it just doesn't make sense to claim C9 is pay to win, especially in comparison to what else is out there.



2. It boggles my mind that any one could like PvP in a game, I just can't see anything good about it. You do the same thing, in the same few maps, against the same sort of people, often the very same few people as there's often not that many actively PvPing, that generally do the same sort of things, in the same sort of situation making it all even more repetitive than PvE. Then all I keep running into are whinny demanding people, with huge egos, that spend far too much time attacking others in a variety of ways, and make nothing but excuses if they fail at something.

Everyone likes different things, and plays games for different reasons. I like loot grinders, like Diablo, Borderlands, and C9. If I don't make my chars grossly OP, the combat does make me work at it, and is engaging, when doing content below my level I can make personal challenges, like do it within X minutes, without being hit more than Y times, without dropping a combo in a given fight, etc. I'm an altaholic, C9 has a bunch of classes I want to play. Quests, and the story in online games in general are meh compared to single player games, C9's are fine, as I've seen far worse, or a complete lack of purpose outside of grinding (Warframe), but I don't play online games for those things, I play them for game play, and to play with people I want to play with.



3. This number comes after two, and before four, you seem to have forgotten that though.



4. I play games with people I want to play with, and know personally. I have no interest in playing with you, getting to know you, or you knowing who I am in game so you can annoy me in game. Then as I do play many characters, it'd be something of a list, not a single name.



5. In the realm of F2P companies, Webzen is far from the worst, and pretty decent really. NEXON is a mess, not as bad as some of the others, but many of the complaints you, and others have made about Webzen, can just as easily be made against NEXON, as well as other issues like crooked marketing which was the final thing that made me give up on them. Perfect World Entertainment, at least in regards to their management of Rusty Hearts, is incredibly slow at fixing major bugs, even if it was one of their own making, have abandoned the game for about a year now, but still keep it, and its cash shop up, they're also crooked, as they'll for instance try to put things "on sale" to get people to buy them, when they knew they were going to be made free about a week later, but didn't want to mention that.

That $90 costume package you mentioned likely came with a bunch of other things, since costume sets on their own always seem to be $6.80 US, plus you likely could put the stuff you didn't want from that package in the auction house. Now look at Aeria Games where they'll sell 100% vanity costumes, that permanently lock to your character, as exclusives on their ladder or tier spender things, that may require you to spend some $300 US or more on a bunch of stuff you don't want, all within a period of maybe just a few days. How about how anything of much interest may be in a random box, with a near 0% success chance, and when you fail, you can get account locked stuff, that may be worth less than 50% of the cost of the random box. Then if you want to be top notch in a Aeria Games hosted game, and/or get the nice vanity stuff, expect to spend hundreds, if not over one thousand dollars US, per, week, to do it, as various people do, since they can take games that weren't too bad in Korea, and add far more pay to win to them.

The people behind Elder Scrolls Online seem to cash in as best they can, at the expense of the game, and that's even a pay to play game. How about the $500 US gold mechs that were in Mechwarrior Online? Seen some individual premium items run for in excess of $1000 US from what I remember in various online games. If a $90 US package with vanity stuff is the worst you can think of, that by comparison to what's out there is pretty good.

Trying to rhyme off the things people that managed to hack the servers, or a GM account, or GMs and related that are no longer GMs or related due to what they did also doesn't make sense. Plenty of online games have been hacked, attacked, and so on causing problems of one sort or another. For instance, in Phantasy Star Online one time someone hacked a GM account, then moved various quest NPCs just out of reach of players, in Anarchy Online someone did the same to spawn tons of high level mobs inside the one city. No online something is ever 100% secure. People often do things they shouldn't, that's why we have crime, with businesses what really matters is how the business handles those problems. Webzen apparently kicked them out, publicly addressed those issue, and apologized, which is about the best we could hope for. Meanwhile some of the player helpers, and GMs over at Aeria Games have done an assortment of things that were clearly against the rules, or just plain wrong (player spawn kill constantly, harass, scam, hack, unban justly banned players, blatant favouritism, etc), were caught red handed, or even would openly brag about how they can get away with anything, yet they kept their positions, and accounts. Don't even try to report them either, Aeria Games GMs will be more likely to ban you for trying to report them, claiming you falsified the report or some such thing, than they are to ban the actual offenders, then the bans wouldn't stick anyhow, so why bother.

You want to complain about companies dropping games? That's hardly anything new in the online gaming realm, with the excess of them these days, it's even relatively common. Although how about things like Aeria Games where they have a huge pile of games they supposedly support, but in the past have given maybe 24 hours notice before dropping, or transferring one off to another publisher. These days it's not if a company will drop an online game, it's how they handle it.

After Webzen added character slot expansions for I think $7.20 US, when by default you can make twelve characters per server, not just per account, people complained bitterly. $7.20 US is well within the norm for such things, and twelve characters is a rather good number compare to most other games. This is the kind of bizarre stuff that bugs me, here you, and they, complain about the most minor of things, that may not even be a problem, like if they were the most horrible offenses ever. Meanwhile I've seen other companies do far, far, far worse, so I have to wonder how much experience you, and the like have had if you think the kind of stuff Webzen does is so bad.

Your claim that you know of no VL that thinks Webzen is doing a good job is also nonsense, as I've seen people claim them to be white knights on the C9 forums when they try to defend against irrational complaints. It's always amusing to see people in your position go on as if they personally knew every player, VL, GM, and related in their arguments. You claim to know so much, but show that you know so very little, especially about me, stop trying to analyze me, you're doing a really bad job of it.



No game, company, or person is ever going to be perfect. You always have to base things on if the pros, outweigh the cons, which I feel Webzen, and C9 manage to do. If you feel otherwise, then move on. Instead you, and the like just seem intent on trying to stir up as much trouble as you can, make endless complaints, make irrational nonsensical arguments, or no arguments at all to base your claims on, claim you know everyone, and everything, and the opinion of everyone else that does not match your own is invalid. If you actually thought that if I'm having fun with it, then good for me, you wouldn't be here trying to change my mind, and continually attempt to steer people away based on your supposed wealth of knowledge. People can make reviews for games on Steam if they want, you could have written one up, and been done with it, but no, you felt the need to come to the forums to rant, and be a black knight, which are just as annoying as white knights.

You've been trying to make me out to be a white knight, but show how I've been irrationally defending C9, or Webzen. I've on various occasions, even in this thread, pointed to PvP in C9 just not working well, and not a good idea if you want to PvP in a game. I've told various people to get the game not through Steam, but directly from Webzen, as the Steam one has issues. My arguments are based on what does exists, within C9, Webzen, and elsewhere in online gaming. I'm not making things up, or showing blind bias, but showing that no company, game, or person is perfect, there are things I don't like, but compare to what's out there, and what I find in C9, things are pretty good here. How would such things make me a white knight?
The Nyaun of Profit May 9, 2014 @ 2:03am 
Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):
blah blah blah

OMG stop forcing c9 is a pve game guess what nobody play this for the pve the only reason this game still alive is for the pvp but webzen ♥♥♥♥ed it so many times people just quited.

NA server is a ghost town in pvp becouse all the muricans got tired of pvping with SA players ( Brs*cought*) and moved to EU and SEA.

Originally posted by evia:
Yes, I do realize skill can overcome gear.
And I have beaten those with very overpowered gear.
But that doesn't make the game fun when you have to try much harder than other players just to beat them.

I main assassin and it takes a lot of combos to kill someone.
With combo drops (in lag) being a huge issue, on top of other classes like ranger/shade ele/shadow/BD being able to kill you in under 10 seconds, this game is pretty broken in PvP.

Shade Eles tanking like Guardians with Player Res & Mana shield, while doing more damage than a warden.

No point in mastering a hard class when you can play an easier one that doesn't require combos but can kill people in under 5 skills.

What is your IGN deity?

Assasin always got this problem his damage is too low in pvp and all his damage comes from envenom and large combos unlike others "combo" classes like shadow or slayer they have at least 1 hard nuke/burst combo (all classes can infinite and etc but those benefits more from large combos)

Also i dont have much trouble with shade eles and im surprised people still using them instead of facerolling with a guns or tao.

Well theres a video example about how skill is better than gear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZe9OEMhJOw
Last edited by The Nyaun of Profit; May 9, 2014 @ 2:03am
Phoenix (yes, another one) May 26, 2014 @ 2:52pm 
Originally posted by OPPAISTABUU !(Dasmir):
Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):
blah blah blah

OMG stop forcing c9 is a pve game guess what nobody play this for the pve the only reason this game still alive is for the pvp but webzen ♥♥♥♥ed it so many times people just quited.

NA server is a ghost town in pvp becouse all the muricans got tired of pvping with SA players ( Brs*cought*) and moved to EU and SEA.
Everything in the game is completely dependent on having done enough PvE, just try to show me how you can progress by only doing PvP, you can't. As that is the case, the only sensible way to describe PvP in C9 is an optional activity on the side, as while you do need to do PvE to do anything in the game, PvP is not a requirement for anything in the game short of PvP specific achievements and such. Although as even PvP is dependent on PvE, those PvP achievements and such can be called PvE dependent by extension as well.

As this is unquestionably a PvE centric game, anyone trying to play it just for the PvP, if they hated the PvE, would, to be blunt, have to be an idiot. It'd be like buying a new car for the sound system in it, when you hated everything else about the car. You could try to fool yourself into thinking it's worth it as the sound system is so good, but as everything else matters more to your use of a car, eventually you won't be able to stand the car anymore, and get rid of it.

If people only played it for the PvP, and the PvP on the NA server was a ghost town, then that would mean the NA server would be a ghost town as a result. This although is certainly not true, as it is still a pretty active server, with people always running around, doing dungeons, and so on. Stop trying to kid yourself into believing that this is anything but a PvE centric game. The people that always complain about C9/Webzen the most, and the loudest, are those that try to claim it is a PvP game, but go on, and on about all the many things wrong with it if you play it for the PvP, like how much PvE you have to do.
Last edited by Phoenix (yes, another one); May 26, 2014 @ 2:56pm
otter symphony Aug 23, 2014 @ 12:05pm 
one: i read none of the comments above me...
two: its all about skill my friend they may be button mashing but you arnt and whn they have no skills left to mash you combo the ♥♥♥♥ out of them. easy as that, also helps to have the right class... if you cant pvp someone in the best gear when you have the worst you shouldnt be pvping in the first place (yes i have done the pvp many times with terrible gear against badass gear and won)
Last edited by otter symphony; Aug 23, 2014 @ 12:05pm
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