Shuffle Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:22pm
Theories On *Mute's BackStory
Well if you guys haven't seen it here http://blog.scoutshonour.com/

Now this is really strange. The cover of Hate Plus really intrests me.

First off we appear to have two *Mutes. One apprears the same *Mute that we know and love. Though she is looking sad and such.

Then there is another what apprears to be an older *Mute which looks like she is wearing an offcier's uniform of the ship Mugunghwa. You can see the Mugungha label on the shoulders of her uniform.

Now this raises alot of questions.

All my theories on why the Mugunhwa happen the way it did are now contrdicted.

Why is *Mute looking sad?

Why is there an older *Mute?

Im really intrested in what you guys have to say on this.

I for one think *Mute may have something to do with the ship's downfall.

Though I don't think the current *Mute has any idea of.

So what do you guy's think of this devoplment for Hate Plus?
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Mistic Apr 2, 2013 @ 7:19am 
Yeah, the new announcement for Hate Plus and that image are certainly intriguing.

It wouldn't be far-fetched to say that *Mute may be a digitalized personality, not unlike *Hyun-ae, and that old woman may be her previous self, like the Pale Bride. However, the question then is: when did the digitalization happen? This proves that she was an AI before the Medieval revolution (it says *Mute, not Mute; also, who names an AI "Mute"?).
http://twitpic.com/c90lwx

Also, how did your boss know about her? Your mission briefing in Analogue explicitly tells you to "speak to the security AI *Mute for assistance". I can see two options: she was already an AI by the time the Mugunghwa departed (or at least very early, before all communication was lost), or someone sent a SOS mentioning her before the ship disappeared forever.

But I'm making assumptions here. Maybe *Mute was always an AI and that woman is another person, like her inventor. Or maybe an artificial body. Who knows.

Oh, and the sad part is easy to explain: since *Mute forgot everything that happened before the Medieval Revolution and became one of its enforcers, it's likely that there was some sort of mind wipe involved. That would be really disturbing, but hey, this isn't called A Hate Story for nothing, is it?
τέλος Apr 2, 2013 @ 10:10am 
The cover art seems to suggest that *Mute has (obviously) drastically changed. She looks very disturbed and frightened by her older self in the chair; to me, this can only say she's scared of her backstory (even if she doesn't actually know it).

*Mute being dressed in her new hanbok seems to indicate that she's clearly moved on from neo-Joseon society aboard the Mugunghwa and has taken to self-expression on the White Princess (which is great to see!). But it also seems to me that she's dressed like an actual Mugunghwa flower[ourlittlebridge.edublogs.org].

Originally posted by Mistic:
Yeah, the new announcement for Hate Plus and that image are certainly intriguing.

It wouldn't be far-fetched to say that *Mute may be a digitalized personality, not unlike *Hyun-ae, and that old woman may be her previous self, like the Pale Bride. However, the question then is: when did the digitalization happen? This proves that she was an AI before the Medieval revolution (it says *Mute, not Mute; also, who names an AI "Mute"?).
http://twitpic.com/c90lwx

Also, how did your boss know about her? Your mission briefing in Analogue explicitly tells you to "speak to the security AI *Mute for assistance". I can see two options: she was already an AI by the time the Mugunghwa departed (or at least very early, before all communication was lost), or someone sent a SOS mentioning her before the ship disappeared forever.

But I'm making assumptions here. Maybe *Mute was always an AI and that woman is another person, like her inventor. Or maybe an artificial body. Who knows.

Oh, and the sad part is easy to explain: since *Mute forgot everything that happened before the Medieval Revolution and became one of its enforcers, it's likely that there was some sort of mind wipe involved. That would be really disturbing, but hey, this isn't called A Hate Story for nothing, is it?

I think she must have been renamed "*Mute" for whatever reason (irony, perhaps?).

The woman in the chair is definitely old *Mute; Love mentioned it over Twitter. I'm not sure if she's physically old as well as just being old-before-Year 0, or if there's just a shadow being cast across her.
[SSJ_420]z3r0_c00l_r4nch Apr 2, 2013 @ 3:09pm 
"Mute" is a strange name for a person to have. We know the colonists on the Mugunghwa had fairly typical Korean names and the later neo-Joseon society were also using similar names (plus the Smiths mean that some English names likely were mixed among the original colonists), so I'd argue against the idea that *Mute was ever a "regular" person. So, when the investigator's boss mentions a "*Mute", he must be referring to an AI that started out as an AI, not a more recent development.

An AI named *Mute could be a reference to Wintermute, an AI from the cyberpunk novel Neuromancer--obviously a topical reference, and, from the message board discussion in the author's Digital: A Love Story, one she'd be aware of. It could also be taken literally--*Mute could mean an AI that was mostly an observer, a thinking being that didn't originally have emotions or the ability to vocalize them, an impartial entity which would ensure the safe running of the ship despite the politics that might develop over the long journey.

That's definitely NOT what *Mute as we know her, and it's easy to suggest ways that someone around Year 0 was able to change her (or its, at this point) programming. I can't see why a neo-Joseon society would fill a key "official" position, of sorts, with a woman, so there must have been some spectacular reason behind the move. Possibility 1: they thought an AI with the authority *Mute had couldn't be trusted unless it was a (from their viewpoint) frivolous and unintelligent woman who wouldn't know how to use her power; Possibility 2: her feminine form was considered ideal for obtaining information (supported by how often the ship's crew revealed their secrets to the talkative Mute, and how *Mute specifically mentions she was created as a social creature); or Possibility 3: *Mute was given someone else's personality with the brain-catch device.

Possibility 3 seems the least likely (the neo-Joseon seemed interested in FORGETTING their technology, to the point their citizens even forgot they were on a colony ship with a specific mission) but the presence of the older Mute is hard to explain without positing that she was once a normal human.

It could be that they uploaded a woman's personality who was particularly loyal to the Captain's family (borne out by *Mute describing herself as a servant of the Ryus), or the *Mute personality was based partially on a political opponent of the neo-Joseons as a kind of eternal punishment (given the theme of the original game, this seems incredibly likely), or the Mute personality is effectively "reset" every few years so that either *Mute doesn't grow too powerful or too far from her original profile. For example, the neo-Joseons were interested in removing ALL information from before Year 0, and an AI would have to keep at least some sort of records to do it's job, but it could be that Mute has a sort of "lifespan" to prevent her from remembering the pre-Joseon days, or even from becoming a radical.

It could have even happened before: all the records we read in Analogue were fairly close together. And Mute seemed to be developing questions about the Joseon lifestyle, even before you interact with her: whatever you say about her conservative attitude, Mute's not stupid, and she's intellectually VERY aware that the doctrine of "male superiority" isn't. The man she considered good drank himself to death in depression while evil men squandered their opportunities, while their wives suffered in silence, with only Mute there to bear witness. She wouldn't be able to stick with her views for long, and unless there was a periodic reset we wouldn't be able to explain satisfactorily how Mute could put up with this cognitive dissonance for long.

That is, my totally unsupportable fan theory is this: *Mute's personality was based on a real woman who initially supported the neo-Joseon's rise to power, her mental profile being used to subvert the original actually-mute *Mute from stopping the ship's takeover, but as Human Mute grew older, she came to see the society she helped create as too oppressive, and the AI *Mute was periodically reset to initial conditions, making Human Mute and AI *Mute natural enemies...despite being the same person. That Human Mute seems to be wearing military/official garb must mean that Year 0 hadn't quite occurred yet, and women (or at least rebels) were free to hold important positions, while AI *Mute, decked out in traditional clothes, is clearly aligned with the Joseon forces.

tl;dr Old Lady Rebel Mute Moe.

P.S. If the game does take the ending you achieved into account, any Hyun-ae route is going to be majorly depressing. Spoilers, obviously: in the original game, Mute's path means neither you nor her find out WHY Hyun-ae went crazy and killed off the ship, and thus leaving *Hyun-ae's AI to decay is considered "justified" by *Mute because she's a murderer who lived a life any Joseon girl would have loved to have. Now, if you play with Hyun-ae in Hate Plus, you'll be forced to discover *Mute's tragic backstory and why she became so socially conservative in the first place--but, oops, her AI's already gone! Soon, in all the "canon" endings, someone who was at least understandably justified in what they did is going to die because nobody knew their reasons--reasons that existed in a database nobody bothered to read.

Get your box of tissues ready; even if It's Not Ero you're still going to need plenty of them.

Shuffle Apr 2, 2013 @ 7:02pm 
Though I don't beleive mute would be reseted every couple of years. One she is able to remember years worth of informatiom.


Here is my theory.

I belive that older *Mute was the orginal ai that the investigator was told about. Though since there was a reset, *Mute herself was changed. I don't believe that the older woman was an actual person but the orginal *Mute

Like you said it wouldn't make sense for an actual person to to be named *Mute.

I do I do belive that the current *Mute has no idea of her previous incarnation.

She is a computer program though since she was reseted. She was basically a new *Mute

Its like reseting your phone. Once you reset its came as the way it did when you bought it, All brand new, without any hint that it was your previouis phone.

Though something had to happen for it to be a sudden reset.

I belive that reset was caused by the crew who mutined. They grew tired of living in ship and wanted to turn back. The ship itself was off target to begin with so I believe the part of the crew toke control of the ship and reseted everything.
_Archia (banned) Apr 2, 2013 @ 11:30pm 
cool
MechaShadowV2 Apr 3, 2013 @ 1:13am 
I know this isn't something most would agree with, but since i didn't see anything explicitly say that the other older woman was *Mute, i'm under the impression there'd a good chance its not her, course i could be very wrong i'll admit, or missing something.
Mistic Apr 3, 2013 @ 3:59am 
Originally posted by Prospero:
The woman in the chair is definitely old *Mute; Love mentioned it over Twitter. I'm not sure if she's physically old as well as just being old-before-Year 0, or if there's just a shadow being cast across her.

So now we have confirmation. But that old woman is an AI or not? Because that's the big mystery about that pic. Do you have a link to Love's twit?

Originally posted by ToruMasuta:
An AI named *Mute could be a reference to Wintermute, an AI from the cyberpunk novel Neuromancer--obviously a topical reference, and, from the message board discussion in the author's Digital: A Love Story, one she'd be aware of. It could also be taken literally--*Mute could mean an AI that was mostly an observer, a thinking being that didn't originally have emotions or the ability to vocalize them, an impartial entity which would ensure the safe running of the ship despite the politics that might develop over the long journey.

How could I miss that reference?! True, that would be a perfect homage and another paradox, since *Mute isn't like Wintermute at all! But yeah, in universe her name should have made more sense if her obligations made her to be... to be like an impartial observer who wouldn't be able to oppose the changes even if she wanted to!

Now I'm wondering, what if she was aware of the changes and that she was going to be mind wiped, but she was programmed not to do anything? Even if that cost her memories and personality? Ugh.

I agree with Shuffle, though. The idea of periodic resets doesn't sound very likely, since *Mute knows everything that happened after Year 0. But there was a reset at Year 0, that's for sure.

Originally posted by ToruMasuta:
P.S. If the game does take the ending you achieved into account, any Hyun-ae route is going to be majorly depressing. Spoilers, obviously: in the original game, Mute's path means neither you nor her find out WHY Hyun-ae went crazy and killed off the ship, and thus leaving *Hyun-ae's AI to decay is considered "justified" by *Mute because she's a murderer who lived a life any Joseon girl would have loved to have. Now, if you play with Hyun-ae in Hate Plus, you'll be forced to discover *Mute's tragic backstory and why she became so socially conservative in the first place--but, oops, her AI's already gone! Soon, in all the "canon" endings, someone who was at least understandably justified in what they did is going to die because nobody knew their reasons--reasons that existed in a database nobody bothered to read.

Get your box of tissues ready; even if It's Not Ero you're still going to need plenty of them.

Thank god we have the not-canon-yet-extremely-satisfying harem ending! Because you're right, with the other endings, no matter what happens, you're going to feel really bad for one of the AIs. I mean, even in *Mute's route you would feel bad for *Hyun-ae, since we're going to find out the horrible secret behind Neo Joseon Land.
τέλος Apr 3, 2013 @ 9:56am 
If I remember correctly, there's something to do with the moon in Hate Plus. I mean, it begins at the start of the Lunar Calander, and I think Love said something about it involving the moon. Who knows what, though.

Originally posted by Mistic:

So now we have confirmation. But that old woman is an AI or not? Because that's the big mystery about that pic. Do you have a link to Love's twit

Yeah, it's here: https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/318853305600192512.

Originally posted by ToruMasuta:
An AI named *Mute could be a reference to Wintermute, an AI from the cyberpunk novel Neuromancer--obviously a topical reference, and, from the message board discussion in the author's Digital: A Love Story, one she'd be aware of. It could also be taken literally--*Mute could mean an AI that was mostly an observer, a thinking being that didn't originally have emotions or the ability to vocalize them, an impartial entity which would ensure the safe running of the ship despite the politics that might develop over the long journey.

I really really really hope there's some sort of reference to Digital in Hate Plus. Mostly because I'd like to think that there's just one big Love universe. Imagine if *Mute was actually descended from the Mother AI and *Emilia!

On a non-fangirling-like-♥♥♥♥ note, I think it's granted that the name "*Mute" is meant to be ironic, considering she's vocal, but she's also oppressed (as a "woman"). She may be vocal in her support of the patriarchy of the culture she lives in, but she has no self-expression. She's muted because she's a "woman" -- or an irrational computer program that behaves like what women were perceived as.

Originally posted by Mistic:
Thank god we have the not-canon-yet-extremely-satisfying harem ending! Because you're right, with the other endings, no matter what happens, you're going to feel really bad for one of the AIs. I mean, even in *Mute's route you would feel bad for *Hyun-ae, since we're going to find out the horrible secret behind Neo Joseon Land.

Who said it wasn't canon? The Harem ending is unusual, but it's still...there. And accessible. ` w ` Unrelated, but I'm definitely going to play through the single *Hyun-ae and *Mute routes first and get the entire thing about *Mute's backstory and the history of the Mugunghwa out of the way first so the Harem route's hilarity won't contrast with the discovery of the backstory. It's going to be pretty claustrophobic in that spacecraft with both *Hyun-ae and *Mute in there~
Shuffle Apr 3, 2013 @ 7:54pm 
Yeah Love did want to have the game released in Febuary for some event in the game. Though I don't think Anlogue and the rest of the games are in the same universe.

Maybe it is canon but if there was an ending that was canon which one would it be?

Though when I played through Anlaogue I do not think *Mute belives there was not a reset to begin with though I could be wrong.

Though what do you guys think is going to happen on *Mute's route in Hate Plus?
Mistic Apr 4, 2013 @ 3:44am 
Originally posted by Prospero:
Yeah, it's here: https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/318853305600192512.

Mm, the link isn't working for me. What a shame.

Originally posted by Prospero:
I really really really hope there's some sort of reference to Digital in Hate Plus. Mostly because I'd like to think that there's just one big Love universe. Imagine if *Mute was actually descended from the Mother AI and *Emilia!

I approve! Not that I'm not happy with things as they are, though. Analogue works very well as a separate piece, so as long as it doesn't break immersion, I'll be happy with a subtle reference (apart from the famous asterisk, of course).

Originally posted by Prospero:
Who said it wasn't canon? The Harem ending is unusual, but it's still...there. And accessible. ` w ` Unrelated, but I'm definitely going to play through the single *Hyun-ae and *Mute routes first and get the entire thing about *Mute's backstory and the history of the Mugunghwa out of the way first so the Harem route's hilarity won't contrast with the discovery of the backstory. It's going to be pretty claustrophobic in that spacecraft with both *Hyun-ae and *Mute in there~

Well, *Hyun-ae outirght accuses you of cheating the system, so it can't be very canon.

I'm going to do the same. You know, in my first playthrough I tried to imagine what I would do if I was in that situation and ended up with *Mute (before I went to speak with *Hyun-ae I checked the questions *Mute gave me and by the time I freaked out with the last question the reactor broke), so I'll probably start with *Mute.

I want to know how the transfer file works, though. Love has said there would be differences if you picked male or female when speaking with *Mute. Since I've done both, how will I be able to differentiate them when doing the transfer?

Originally posted by Shuffle:
Though what do you guys think is going to happen on *Mute's route in Hate Plus?

I think she's going to freak out when she finds out the ugly truth. In Analogue there's no way to tell her that she couldn't have been like that in the old days, and even in the harem ending she saves *Hyun-ae because what her family did to her was horrible, not because she acknowldged the faults of the ship's society.
τέλος Apr 4, 2013 @ 4:35am 
Originally posted by Mistic:
Mm, the link isn't working for me. What a shame.

It included the full stop. Try this: https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/318853305600192512

Originally posted by Mistic:
I want to know how the transfer file works, though. Love has said there would be differences if you picked male or female when speaking with *Mute. Since I've done both, how will I be able to differentiate them when doing the transfer?

This is how it will work: http://twitpic.com/bkds8u/full You select the different routes with different variables in each (male/female, married/unmarried, *Hyun-ae romantic/platonic, *Hyun-ae/*Mute/Harem &c.) and continue from there into Hate Plus.
Mistic Apr 4, 2013 @ 7:24am 
Originally posted by Prospero:
It included the full stop. Try this: https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/318853305600192512

Thank you very much! :D

Wait, does that twit mean Old *Mute was in fact an AI?

Originally posted by Prospero:
This is how it will work: http://twitpic.com/bkds8u/full You select the different routes with different variables in each (male/female, married/unmarried, *Hyun-ae romantic/platonic, *Hyun-ae/*Mute/Harem &c.) and continue from there into Hate Plus.

Thank you again!

Yes! That's a great solution! If it's going to be like that, I almost want to try every possible combination, if only to read the summaries xD
Shuffle Apr 4, 2013 @ 7:59pm 
No it just says thats old *Mute thats it. So it can still mean that could be infact the real *Mute.
[SSJ_420]z3r0_c00l_r4nch Apr 19, 2013 @ 9:54pm 
Can I come up with a multiple-paragraph theory regarding a single screenshot?

You bet I can.

http://twitpic.com/cjfujp

I'm not on a computer that can run Analogue at the moment (yeah, I know) so I can't check the source material, but the 2390 date might tell us two things. First, I believe the Mugunghwa launched earlier than 2390, and "since 2390" means that *Mute either wasn't present when the ship launched or at least wasn't present in the form we know her as. I think this gives a bit more credence to the earlier theory that *Mute was originally a natural human being.

We don't know how the Joseonites took over--*Hyun-ae in the first game tells us we just have to accept this as a given. Hate Plus's territory, we're told, is a) the takeover and b) *Mute's backstory. It'd make sense, from a narrative perspective, to combine those two plot threads.

My theory? *Mute, or at least this form of her, is actually an appeal to the rest of the ship--she's a figurehead for the polite and public elements of that movement, of sorts. Dictators have traditionally taken power in the name of security--"our enemies are at our walls, hiding in our cities, there's a Communist on every street, etc." and the easiest explanation as to why a modern-er and liberal Korean society might devolve back the feudal era is that the Mugunghwa had some violent faction or element, whether real or created by the Joseonites, and a return to "a simpler time" had appeal to people living in constant fear.

*Mute, then, would be the perfect symbol for the neo-Joseonites. If her personality is anything like the modern *Mute, she's certainly not as hardcore or (for lack of a better word) patriarchal as any leader of the actual movement would be; people on the fence who would never want to see women treated like cattle might be suckered in by a seemingly-independent woman espousing the same ideas, as if her gender** gives her automatic legitimacy. *Mute had no qualms about faulting men for their errors, even if she was always deferential towards them, and she could be a sort of moderate face for a radical movement.

As a security program, she's what everyone in a chaotic system wants: someone who will restore control and look cute doing it. People will be afraid of a Big Brother type whose goons goosestep about the ship, but Big Sister *Mute-chan can SURELY be trusted with wiretapping the entire ship and reporting only obvious criminals to the authorities, right? She'd never lie or betray the public's trust...right? The fact that the nobles shared as much as they did with *Mute despite seeming to know she worked for the Emperor is proof that her appearance is disarming.

(An aside: I doubt this very much, since Christine Love was using this as an accurate portrayal of Joseon women rather than a plot device, but we might be able to read a bit more into the Dragon Emperor's wife's motives in deleting most of her personal correspondence. We're told that "good women delete their mails, because they weren't supposed to be literate" but it's noteworthy that the woman who knows *Mute and her nature the best, whose remaining letters are the best written, who seems to be the most intelligent character in the first game (figures out why *Hyun-ae cannot talk, etc.), and whose letters would have actual importance to historians and politicians, makes a point of deleting all of her letters...which would have been visible only to AI programs, *Mute possibly being the only one at the time. Hell, the details she DOES leave could very well be written with *Mute in mind in addition to their intended recipient. The Marital Admonitions contain information useless to the Pale Bride but perhaps she wanted *Mute to know her suspicions about the "bride shortage" for the Emperor; I believe her last note mentions her going to visit Hyun-ae's family, after which she dies very suddenly and from mysterious circumstances. Perhaps she couldn't outright SAY "I'm going into a dangerous situation", and hoped Mute would get the hint that, if her visit with Hyun-ae's family, who were willing to...you know, didn't go well, they might have had something to do it.

Whoa, that's a long aside.)

Anyway, it's also possible that the logo behind *Mute is the Batman symbol, in which case *Mute Security Systems is totes badass.

**(Do AI even HAVE genders? I don't mean physically, of course. But if we think of genders as a social construct, what does it mean if *Mute is a woman? Does she "self-identify" as female? If she wasn't programmed to "feel" like a woman, can she be considered to "be" a female, or is she just trying to fit her electronic circuits and personality into our crude gender binary? If she was programmed as a lady, even has a female endochrine simulator chugging away somewhere, could she decide on her own that she was a lesbian, or even transgendered? I've known people who crossdressed; clearly they thought the role that fit them best (at least sometimes) was one their biological equipment didn't prepare them for, but an AI has no biological equipment; their thoughts, even if perfectly "human", are going to be changed by the fact that they don't eat, breathe, or procreate. If a being that can write and compile a library program in a matter of seconds decides she's female, we have to accept that she is, but there's no way to communicate what being female to her means, nor what gender means to us. Hell, poor Hyun-ae couldn't even get across the concept that in her era, women could use computers as well as men; whatever the gender binary (if it exists) is like to immortal, bodyless beings, it must blow the different concepts of gender between two normal human societies out of the water.I hope the game gets into the mechanics of the AI process a little bit, anyway.

My assumption was that *Hyun-ae didn't care about the gender of the investigator because she no longer had biology that cared about such a thing. She could fall in love with someone based on all the traits her normal self might like, but there wouldn't have been as strong a "push" from her lizard brain to be either heterosexual or homosexual.

I'd probably choose to upload myself as an AI, given the chance, but I am honestly not sure if I'd prefer having my biology simulated along with it. Being an incorporeal entity but retaining the same urges could be distressful, as I've always seen the AI process as a sort of "uplifting" procedure, where the demands of flesh are stripped away and the mind given freedom from weakness, but I'm not sure that a guy not into ladies wearing red-framed glasses would be "me" or not. Very philosophical.)

EDIT: I would also like to mention that when you activate *Mute for the first time, there is a dialogue that claims it is "fixing errors." We don't know what that means, but I'm guessing it has some sort of part to play in Hate Plus. Perhaps *Mute doesn't have access to certain memories after the data was "fixed" incorrectly, or maybe it set her free from some kind of control that had been placed on her by the neo-Joseonites which permits her to escape her programming in Hate Plus's present to reveal the past?
Scout  [developer] Apr 20, 2013 @ 2:09pm 
I'll just leave this here: http://twitpic.com/ckr0dq
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