gurkoz Oct 22, 2012 @ 5:44am
DOOM 3 BFG, The positive facts
There is a lot of complaining about this new version so here is my attempt to try and give some positive feedback on what I feel is good about it. It is not without it's flaws but I think it all has to do with too high expectations. Instead, take it for what it is and make up your own mind if it is something for you.

To me personally i like the new version. I played the regular one quite a lot back in the day and enjoyed it to the fullest. Being a complete Doom nut, the BFG Edition is for me, just another reason to play it through yet again.

Here is a list and notes about some of the things that the BFG Edition affects.

RESOLUTIONS
No need to fiddle with config-files to get more resolutions. Now just about everything is supported from the start. Then again, fixing it through the config-files was never a hard thing to do, it's still a plus for this edition.

NEW ENGINE AND BETTER PERFORMANCE
Although the old version runs at ridiculous speeds this new one on id tech 5 seems more smooth. More like Rage (without the texture loading problems). Some people are complaining about 3 fps and such but I have no problems, and I am still running on a old version of the Nvidia drivers. If you are having problems I would suggest to update the video drivers.

LIGHTNING
A lot of talk about the new lightning is going around. Some people are upset about the fact that it seems brighter and they just changed some variable and that was it. I personally don't mind how they achieved it and to me it really doesn't affect gameplay in a negative aspect. It still is a pretty dark game. Check out this clip in an almost pitch black section of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scidvXwjOkg

FLASHLIGHT
Some might say the fact that the flashlight now is mounted distracts from the horror feel of the game. I could agree to some extent. But this is a new version and it adds a new twist to it. Still, they really should have kept the old flashlight for the higher difficulty levels. That or just a setting in the options menu. Also, it seems like the dynamic shadows for the flashlight where removed in this version. Someone pointed out that the they still are intact in the multiplayer mode. Perhaps it's a bug in the singleplayer or something with performance related to consoles. In any way, it really should be activated in the PC version. In the end, a small detail. Nothing that should keep you from buying the BFG edition.

CHECKPOINT SAVE
Autosave was already present in the old version so i really don't see any difference on this new checkpoint system. Perhaps now it's more frequent than before. Important to note is that you still, like before, have the option to save when ever you want manually.

GAMEPAD SUPPORT
A lot of players cling to the fact that gamepads are for losers and hardcore PC players only use keyboard and mouse. For a long time I was of the same notion but I slowly started to use it in various games where it felt more naturally. In fps games I can't say it feels more natural but it still is fun. It adds a bit of flavor to it and of course a bit of challenge. In the end, it's a added feature and a plus for the BFG Edition. And.. You don't need to use it! Here is a clip playing with the 360-controller. I am no expert or anything, all I am saying it is possible and really quite fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzR_lAIXiz4

ACHIEVEMENTS
Again, some people like it, some don't. The fact is that it's a added feature and a plus for the BFG Edition.

INTERFACE / MENU / PDA
The old version, compared to the today standards suffer from some low resolution. The new one is obviously cleaner and better. Everything working with a gamepad if you care about those things. (There was a awesome interface mod for the old version, loved that.)

PLAYER SPEED
I don't have the exact numbers but I am pretty sure they increased the movement speed of the player. Last time I played the old version I was a bit shocked at the slow pace you where moving. In any way, the speed in this version seems more in line of games today.

AMMO, HEALTH & DIFFICULTY
It was said they added ammo and health packs throughout the game to make it a bit easier for players. Again, this would mess with the horror feel of the game and nobody likes a game without a challenge. Having played the BFG edition a few hours in on veteran difficulty I can say the health is nicely distributed and it still is pretty hard. The ammo on the other hand feels a bit off since I mostly have a few hundred rounds to spare. Not a deal breaker, I love to spend ammo.

EXPANSION & NEW LEVELS
I haven't played the new levels as of yet so I will not comment on those. Still, it's a added feature and a plus for this BFG edition.

OPTIONS
It's easy to get upset and cry about the lack of settings and options in this edition. But this being a “Remastered” version everything would already be at maximum and there would be no need to have options to lower those settings. Still, more options never hurt. The bottom line is that the things that are relevant are present.

TEXTURES
Of course it would have been nice to have the original artist sit down and touch up all the textures to ridiculous fidelity. Sadly this was not the case with this BFG Edition. If you crave high resolution textures then the old version with mods will be your thing. Still, I have no problem playing Doom 3 again with the same textures (Ultra versions included).

Here is a comparison I made of the old and new BFG Edition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6tJqYdwfsE

FOV
The default field of view might be an issue to some people. Luckily, there is still hope since you can change that through the g_fov parameter.

CONSOLE
Some people places the lack of in-game console as a negative but there really is nothing to it. You still can enable it through command line parameter. (Never used it in BFG edition since it would disable the Achievements.)

MODS
Naturally this is a new version in a way so old mods would have some compatibility problems. It seems though that the support for mods is non-existing in this BFG Edition. A sad thing really but it is more or less the way of the future.

Although, there is still some hope. Me personally, I could play the game fine without texture packs and co-op mods. But the included default sounds drives me nuts! The weapon sounds are just pathetic. And since there are no actual mod support in this BFG Edition I have tried a different approach. A bit more complex but in the end actually possible. I used this to change the sounds of the weapons. Time will tell if it will be a viable way to mod this release. Here is a clip of my version running with custom sounds.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6tJqYdwfsE&t=2m37s

3D AND OCULUS
Nothing I can comment on since I have no way to try them out. Still a added feature and support, making it a plus for the BFG Edition.

DOOM 1 & 2
Nice to have them included but I feel I rather stick to the original standalone versions on Steam. Again, a bonus for the BFG Edition to include them. Although some re-playability in these versions since they now also supports achievements.
Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
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OneFortyFour Oct 22, 2012 @ 6:16am 
Love the HD version, plays like a dream and for a game from 2004 looks great, been playing Borderlands 2 aswell but really enjoy playing Doom 3 afterwards, kinda looks better too :)
DarkKnightNNY Oct 22, 2012 @ 6:22am 
Modding should be available soon now that they've got the go-ahead to release the code.

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/259369191369502720
Amph Oct 22, 2012 @ 7:46am 
they also added more enemies which is good
ZZ DooM Oct 22, 2012 @ 10:43am 
If this game gets mod support im gonna buy it, but right now the flaws are more than the ++.
FaintDeftone Oct 22, 2012 @ 10:44am 
Yeah, the complaining is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure they'll allow folks to mod it eventually.
Taciter Oct 22, 2012 @ 11:30am 
I'm always in favour of seeing classic games get the remaster treatment (I was overjoyed when the 'Monkey Island' games were given a makeover and with such care and attention) but I have a highly sensitive consolitus sensor in my brain which causes me to become nauseous at the mere whiff of any game which appears to have contracted such a virulent disease.

Classics symptoms include (but not limited to):

* Checkpoint Saving - the bane of PC gamers across the globe
* Gamepad support - irrespective of subjective value in FPS gaming
* Usain Bolt movement - because CoD boppers have non existent attention spans
* Reduced option sets - one size fits all and those filthy PC gamers are too discerning anyway..
* Limited FOV - because little Johnny's Playstation 3 doesn't like horizontal scaling

I'll give ID a modest reprieve however for including/retaining the following:

* Support for non standard resolutions
* Inclusion of a flashlight (though they REALLY should have made this a toggle option)
* Addition of a new level

I'll buy it at discount price as I do with all ports/conversions and doubly so seeing as the Doom franchise was one of the few gaming institutions PC gamers could justifiably claim as their own from inception.
Last edited by Taciter; Oct 22, 2012 @ 11:36am
Amph Oct 22, 2012 @ 12:17pm 
actually fast movement, is a good thing, it's more in par with classic doom and this is awesome
Last edited by Amph; Oct 22, 2012 @ 12:17pm
_LOL_Quietman Oct 22, 2012 @ 1:30pm 
I would just like to point out that Doom 3 BFG isn't using id tech 5. They only added some of the Netwok and Controller code from that.
The checksave system doesn't bother me because you can still quicksave. Low FOV is fixed with a launch parameter.
New higher resolution textures would have been nice but otherwise still a great game.
Strawberry Feels Forever Oct 22, 2012 @ 3:02pm 
*EDIT - wow this post was longer than I thought lol!*

Quite honestly I just don't see any incentive to purchase or 'upgrade' to the BFG edition. Being a Doom fan, I already own the complete id pack, which of course gives me Doom 3, Resurrection of Evil as well as Doom 1+2. The only thing that is remotely new here is the Lost Mission, which from what I've seen - is essentially carbon copies of past levels with some rather hilarious reuses of Doom 3 asets and prefabs.

Now let me get this out of the way before you start hating: reusing assets on multiple levels is NOT uncommon. EVERY game does it. But there's reusing assets and the occasional building, then there's simply copying whole areas. The Lost Mission falls into the latter.

Don't believe me?

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6472/d3bfglobby.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6119/d3bfggarage2.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2175/d3bfgchasar.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3825/d3bfgsurfacen.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5720/d3bfgoffice.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5520/d3bfghallwindow.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8428/d3bfgbridge.jpg
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4834/d3bfgmetalhall.jpg

and here's another comparison for those saying how much better the lighting is in BFG:

Original
http://screenshotcomparison.com/images/Original_4691085273.png

BFG:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/images/BFG_7936421508.png

...and no, these levels don't take place in the same area. It's not uncommon, but at least TRY to distinguish it. My best guess is, these are just throwaway levels that didn't make the final cut. Sad really, because along with co-op support, this was the only other thing I was looking forward to. Which brings me nicely onto my next point.

WHAT THE FUNK HAPPENED TO CO-OP? I'm genuinely surprised to see how little this is even bought up. The original Xbox version had online co-op via Xbox Live. Was it really too much to expect that here? I don't think so. What do we get - nothing. The PS3/360 versions get co-op Doom 1+2. Whoopie. Allow me to put on my party hat. (Sarcasm btw)

There's just no denying that this is simply a desperate attempt to grab some cash they probably lost from RAGE. I don't know what id's deal is, but Christ sake. They honestly used to be one of my all-time favorite developers. It's not that they've gone to console either. Quite frankly, as long as the product is good - I couldn't care less what platform it's on. I'm fortunate enough to own all the platforms this game is listed on so it's truly not a big deal. But let's look at the facts:

Game natively supports HD resolutions - But so could the original game with a few simple config tweaks

Upscaled the game to higher resolutions without touching the textures, which in turn just makes the game look blurrier than it used to.

No co-op Doom 3 which even the orignal Xbox version had.

Removed dynamic shadows from when using the light, giving a more 'static' presentation.

Included more ammo drops and lowered challenge.

The versions of Doom 1 and Doom II included aren't even the best versions of the game.

Mods for vanilla Doom 3 do not work on BFG edition, rendering years of cool new maps, mods and graphical enhancements useless.

And before you start screaming and saying that they'll release the code later on - who gives a crap? You really think these modders who have spent years on Doom 3 are going to remake their mods to extend life support on an already old game? Of course not.

It's not just about the graphics either. I never expected id to remake the textures or anything, but I expected them to do SOMETHING. Simply upscaling a game without any work on the textures, at least none that's noticeable - just makes the game look blurry. That's why we have mods like Sikkmod and various texture packs in the first place.

What I find funny is that fanboys of BFG say how they updated it by giving you ability to use a light and weapon at the same time. What they continuously forget is that Doom 3 was NOT built with that feature in mind. For better or worse, it was designed to make you switch back and forth. Personally I never thought the game was *THAT* dark to begin with. It was dark, yes - but it never really posed much of an issue for me as much as it did with others. But again, I can just as easily get a duct tape mod if I want it THAT bad.

It would have been a decent package if it were released several years ago. But everyone who wants Doom 1+2 as well as Resurrection of Evil have either got them already via Steam or XBLA. I just don't see any incentive. As I said, what REALLY annoyed me was the lack of co-op.

To summarize, it just seems as though people are trying to justify spending their money by deluding themselves into thinking the game has better lighting and 'new' features are worth it. Even IF the lighting is better, which I just don't see - it's hardly noticeable enough to warrant dropping $20-$30 for it. I guess it's nice that it has 3D features, but as I don't own a 3D monitor, and neither do a lot of people, it's a point that I feel doesn't deserve any attention from me. Everyone who already owns Doom 3 vanilla can get everything (apart from the Lost Missions, but is that really worth the money?...) for free with downloadable mods. Fanboys defend the BFG edition by saying much of what the 'whiners' complain about, such as the FOV, can be fixed via the console. But doesn't this kind of defeat the point? If we're having to go in and change things on the console (which isn't enabled by default btw) and mess with the game ourselves, then it's no different to the original.

The only thing I see that's 'fixed' is the game natively supports high definition resolutions and the HUD has correct aspect ratio. Other than the HUD, the original game can run at 1080p with a simple config tweak. It's hardly a feature to write home about, is it? What we have here is a game that's easier, more forgiving, has barely any new features, 3D support that not many people will even make use of, and an un-moddable version of a game that people who are interested in the game, would own already. Yes, mods probably WILL be available in time, but the point is - mods for this game are already available. They've been available for years. Why defend id for essentially blocking years of custom content to keep the game alive?

This is probably a good deal for those who have NEVER played Doom 3 or it's expansion, would like to show off your new 3D monitor and are interested in the origins of one of the best and most influential shooters ever made - but for most people, we already own these games. This 'upgrade' just doesn't have anything that current owners can't already get for free, and have a much nicer looking game as an added bonus. Even though this post will probably generate a lot of hate replies, that's fine. Just know that I never wanted to dislike this product. I REALLY wanted to like it and was truly looking forward to it. I never expected a full HD remake or anything, but I DID expect at least co-op.

I guess if you're enjoying BFG, then great! Hope you enjoy your purchase. But for me, this just don't seem worth it.
Last edited by Strawberry Feels Forever; Oct 22, 2012 @ 10:03pm
DarkKnightNNY Oct 22, 2012 @ 3:21pm 
Being one of the "fanboys" mentioned in your post, I have to complain about one thing:

Originally posted by That English Dude:
Fanboys defend the BFG edition by saying much of what the 'whiners' complain about, such as the FOV, can be fixed via the console. But doesn't this kind of defeat the point?

Doesn't it also defeat the same point if you're pointing out things that could be done in the original game using the same method as a counter argument?

Originally posted by That English Dude:
...so could the original game with a few simple config tweaks

I'll concede with the rest of your argument, though. It would have been nice to see id Software actually upgrade more than the code running everything and possibly include things from the wealth of mods people have made over the years.

Personally I'm hoping someone at id comes to the realization of how awesome it would be if they took advantage of Steam's Workshop for installing mods into BFG - but the chances of that are probably lower than the chances of someone finding a method to port ALL of the old mods into the game instead of just the few who's original authors' still care enough to update down the road.
Strawberry Feels Forever Oct 22, 2012 @ 4:22pm 
@DarkKnightNNY, thank you for your reply and thank you for not filling it with childish language and insults.

I counter your point because it works both ways. A typical defense that someone such as yourself may give for BFG Edition is that it has native HD resolutions that doesn't force you to mess around with editing config files. While that is very true, you may counter someones argument by saying the lighting, as well as FOV can be adjusted with other command variables. Again, very true. My point is, you're still editing config files. You're still doing busywork. It's no different to what you were doing in the original game, rendering a lot of arguments that BFG fans have, moot. I hope that made sense, haha.

What we have is a locked down game that is more restricting than the game it's based on. The sheer fact that years of mods that id's dedicated fanbase put out for their game cannot be used is practically insulting. Even when/if the code is released, I wouldn't expect people to jump out of their chair and start porting them over. Also what we have is a PC game ported to console, then ported back to PC. And to the people who claim the Sikkmodd only made the game look better and didn't offer anything else - you're absolutely false. The Sikkmod DID make the game look good, and continues to impress today, but it also included a bunch of optional (hear that, id...optional features) Here's a short list off the top of my head:

-Light that can be toggled without using flashlight that uses limited battery power
-Realistic weapon damage
-Nightvision and thermal goggles
-Random enemy encounters (seriously guys, this alone makes the mod worth it. You're NEVER safe)
-Zombies get back up unless you destroy their corpse
-Options for regenerative health (if you were that way inclined)

As well as many other options that tweaked such things as amount of ammo dropped by enemies, specific enemy difficulties, as well as a slew of other gameplay options that can offer a new experience.

So please, don't give me this BS that the Sikkmod is only for good visuals. Of course, the mod IS taxing on hardware. Typically, I'd like to think most people today could play Doom 3 with the Sikkmod and get by just fine. Maybe not have everything turned on, but still have a visually superior game than what BFG offers. Put it this way, there's more chance of people being able to play Doom 3 and Sikkmod, than Doom 3 in 3D. Again, this isn't directed at you DarkKnightNNY, just people in general.

At the end of the day, this is all irellevant. It's beating a dead horse. The game is 8 years old and as much as I continue to enjoy it, wasn't exactly revolutionary when it came out and everyone who would have wanted to play it, would have already. A large majority of those people already own the game (and probably expansion) which agian, leaves very little incentive to 'upgrade' to BFG. I wouldn't expect much more support other than a patch or two from id before they *hopefully* start what they should have done a long time ago and work on Doom 4.

Last edited by Strawberry Feels Forever; Oct 22, 2012 @ 4:31pm
gurkoz Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:02pm 
Originally posted by Quietman:
I would just like to point out that Doom 3 BFG isn't using id tech 5. They only added some of the Netwok and Controller code from that.

Ok, so no id tech 5? Strange, i remember reading something about that. Still, i get the feeling it's more smooth now a as if it really uses a new redering engine. I clearly see and "feel" something is changed, something more resembling Rage. Guessing this has something to do with implementing 3d and stuff, where changes to the rederer needed to be made.


@That English Dude, Great posts, a lot of valid points and i agree with you. The shots of the reused level assets is pretty bad. I guess we all feel this edition was a missed opportunity to really create something special. In the end, i personally own both version so i will most likely return to the old modded version after finishing this.

As i pointed out, i really am having a great time playing the BFG edition. But that mostly is due to the fact it's been a few years since i last played Doom 3. I am guessing i would have equally much fun playing the old version.

If the BFG edition is worth it is really up to the idividual. A true "remastered" version would make the decision a bit easier though. Also, it would have been nice if previous owners could get this as a free upgrade. At least it should cost no more than 10$ / 10€.

Perhaps things will change with future patches, time will tell. But a missed opportunity for sure.
Last edited by gurkoz; Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:18pm
Strawberry Feels Forever Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:22pm 
@Gurkoz - Is it possible that the reason you think it feels 'smoother' maybe due to the fact that the character movement is slightly faster? I think the reason you're enjoying Doom 3 BFG Edition so much isn't because of the 'new features' it adds, but because it's throwing you back to a game that was more about straight up, balls to the wall fun - As opposed to the serious, complex games of today, to which I can totally relate. Not to mention the possible placebo effect. But yeah, as Quietman pointed out - it's really not utilizing idTech5 as much as they lead to believe.

I'm glad we can have a discussion that doesn't end up in mindless symbols of !^$"@ and **** and deleted/reported posts. At the end of the day, if you're enjoying your purchase, then nothing I say will convince you otherwise. As for me, I won't be buying the BFG edition all the time I have access to vanilla Doom 3, as well as the other games BFG edition offers, sitting in my Steam catalog.
Last edited by Strawberry Feels Forever; Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:25pm
DarkKnightNNY Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:27pm 
@That English Dude, you are absolutely right, and thank you for not going the childish route as well. I'm a huge fan of Skikkmod, and given the random problems I have on my computer running it was about the only way I could enjoy Doom 3 at all until the BFG release - part of the reason I'm on the defending side of it.

Thanks to my original purchases, Steam's id Software pack sales, and now the BFG edition I've owned three copies of Doom 3 and RoE not to mention the wealth of copies of the original games across various systems. It may seem excessive but it's largely due more to situational circumstance than a desire to throw away money blindly at a company. I don't mind throwing away money to get a huge pack of games I don't own even if it does come with a few I already have.

However, despite this I have two games from a series I love that I would have probably played to death by now had I have had a better running computer sometime before now. Thus the thought of finally getting a copy that will run without huge amounts of work is perfect for me. I don't have to deal with third party mods that are meant to make the game more advanced only to abuse them to make the game run on a lower-end system without it looking like trash. I don't have to have pages worth of autoexect files with custom variables to get it up and running, and most importantly, I don't have to worry about going through all of it again if I have to reinstall anything and forget to make a backup.

So for this I have to defend it, even though there are many aspects of sub-par development apparent in the finished product. BFG is a good buy if you couldn't run Doom 3 before, and it's a great buy if you've never gotten to play it in it's original form. It is not, however, the game the series deserved as a replacement in online marketplaces nor is it the "ultimate" edition of the game. It feels like it was intended to be, and somewhere along the line they decided to just ship it out "as is" without further development. Even the main game selection menu feels like it's missing something considering the empty space on each side that seems to imply two more games should be there. (ironic, as that's exactly the case)

I would like to believe that between id and Bethesda patches and DLC are on the way to make this game better. The eventual (and already teased) modding tools had better not be the only other thing that comes out for this collection. As long as the game isn't /final/ there is no reason for all the hate that's being directed at it. Things can still be improved, and it's awesome for what it is.

...if it is, however. If this really is it and there's no patching or DLC to be released beyond modding tools, then the ball has been severely dropped on this one and I shudder to think what this will mean for the future of the Doom series.

Last edited by DarkKnightNNY; Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:28pm
gurkoz Oct 22, 2012 @ 9:35pm 
@That English Dude - I can't say that it has anything to do with movement speed. Standing still and looking around just feels better and smoother. (Tried both with and without motion blur) To me, it's way ahead of the old version even when that was running at ridiculous fps. Again, i get the same feeling i got when playing Rage.

Yeah, good discussions are hard to come by hehe. I created this post to try and focus on some positive aspects and that generally also brings some respect for other peoples views.
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Date Posted: Oct 22, 2012 @ 5:44am
Posts: 32