Times Change...

[Chicken_Wang]

So Im really just putting this post down...I wrote this long forum post three years back and after reading what I wrote...all I can say is damn, It's amazing how dumb you can be when youre young (Referring to me). The post itself was just really talking about how people should stop criticizing games and praising the old all the time like a bunch of pretentious hipsters. But I worded it very poorly and had a lot of conflicting statements in my arguement; again, I was younger and not as smart and I have matured a lot since then. I guess now all I can say is enjoy what you want and play what you want. Games are games that are meant for everyone. I can't delete this post anymore but I'd thought I edit it. Peace.

[Shooter]

hum...very well put...and unfortunatly, i agree with it.

[ShadowsRage]

Yeah it's the sad truth really. But I have to disagree with fps games being good today though haha. Today's games don't seem to capture my intrest as much as the games of the past. Maybe it's nostalgia or something random like that, but even today, when I play old games (doom, quake, system shock, bioshock 1 to a certain extent, deus ex 1) I stay glued to the screen for hours. That dosen't happen with newer games for me.

For me the focus on a "cinematic experience" in today's games is just belonny and goes totally in the opposite direction of what I want a game to be: fun, which means focused on gameplay. Sure the story might be engrossing and interesting, and might make people talk a hole lot about the game, but if it isn't fun what's the point (yeah I am looking at you bioshock infinite with your bland gunplay)? Sure some odd games might come out that are relatively fun, but they aren't as fun as old games because of lack of focus on the gameplay. Games try too hard to be too many things (open world, cinematic, scripted, dynamic, story driven, etc, etc) that it delutes the game and just makes the gameplay go on the back burner which ultimalty makes the games mediocre for me. Add that to the fact that we see more and more clones of games because "That's where the moneysss are atss devs!" and we have a sad state of a game industry.

Now I am not saying story driven games should be banned from the face of the earth. They have their place and since games are considered more and more works of art it is just natural that games evolve in that direction. But there should at least be an opposite to this evolution. Why don't some devs have games that focus on hardcore gameplay and just that (thankfully we are starting to see that today with rise of the triad and maybe the new shadow warrior but it took a hell of a lot of time). If story driven games become the norm today why not have the "creativity" to go against the grain and try to make a gameplay driven game?

[Neothrasher]

Not to put too fine a point on it or anything... but I think you are perhaps confusing games MADE by id Software with games that are LICENSED out to third-party developers.

From Wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Software#Games_by_external_developers

Games MADE by id Software:
-------------------------------------------
Wolfenstein 3D (1992)
Spear of Destiny (1992)
Doom (1993)
Doom II: Hell on Earth (1994)
The Ultimate Doom (1995)
Master Levels for Doom II (1995)
Final Doom (1996)
Quake (1996)
Quake II (1997)
Quake III Arena (1999)
Quake III: Team Arena (2000)
Doom 3 (2004)
Rage (2011)
Doom 3 BFG Edition (2012)
Doom 4 (TBA)

Games LICENSED out to third-party developers:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Heretic — Raven Software (1994)
Hexen — Raven Software (1995)
Doom 64 — Midway Games (1997)
Hexen II — Raven Software (1997)
Towers of Darkness: Heretic, Hexen & Beyond (1997)
Quake expansion packs
Scourge of Armagon — Ritual Entertainment (1997)
Dissolution of Eternity — Rogue Entertainment (1997)
Quake: The Offering(1998)
Quake II expansion packs
The Reckoning — Gray Matter Interactive (1998)
Ground Zero — Rogue Entertainment (1998)
Quake II: Quad Damage (1999)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein — Gray Matter Interactive, Nerve Software (multiplayer) (2001)
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory — Splash Damage (2003)
Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil — Nerve Software (2005)
Quake 4 — Raven Software (2005)
Doom RPG — Fountainhead Entertainment (2005)
Orcs & Elves — Fountainhead Entertainment (2006)
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars — Splash Damage (2007)
Wolfenstein RPG — Electronic Arts (2008)
Doom Resurrection — Escalation Studios (2009)
Wolfenstein — Raven Software (2009)
Wolfenstein: The New Order - MachineGames (2014)

Some of the games you have mentioned in your post aren't even made by id Software... games such as Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Quake 4 for example. Is it id Software's fault that Quake 4 was uninspired and lackluster? Or is it the fault of Raven Software, the company that MADE the actual game while all id Software did was provide the engine (id Tech 4)?

Keep in mind that for a long time, id Software had a pretty healthy engine licensing subsidation going on. They have moved away from that in recent years... probably due to their acquisition by ZeniMax. In a lot of ways, Epic Megagames has taken over the role that for a number of years id Software filled.

But that doesn't mean that the games that id Software has actually made are bad. If you look at the list of games they actually made, they are all pretty good games. Even Rage is considered a decent FPS game, despite being sidetracted by RPG elements (take those away and look at the shooter elements and it's not a bad game... it's only the RPG and driving elements that most people tend to take issue with.)

Just figured I'd point out the difference there, as it's a bit unfair to blame id Software for games they didn't make in the first place.

[maul]

First of all i dont disagree with what you said here. However question could rather be what kind of FPS do you like? ID games might be similar but the reason i do love them is it most of the times is just fiction. I dont enjoy FPS games that is military based on reality like example COD. But i dont say it is bad games, it is just not my cop of tea. Also thing is todays games dont build up the same strong multiplayer system as the old ones simply because it come out more and more games and people moving on to next game. Before it was different because it wasent the same speed in creating more games i think. Also all the concoles. I do wonder if any games will have the amount of players at same time and under the amount of time as games as Quake 3 arena and counter strike and Unreal tournament had? I doubt that just because it is so many games that come. I dont think we will see any game that be as the old ones in the long turn so to speak. Just my opinion.

[cos-buster]

Автор сообщения: oberonqa

Not to put too fine a point on it or anything... but I think you are perhaps confusing games MADE by id Software with games that are LICENSED out to third-party developers.

Yeah, I was going to write that too!

Anyway, I agree that id is facing a difficult period and everything about its future will depend on how Doom4 ends up. Thankfully, they seem to realise this themselves so who knows, maybe they will actually deliver and survive.

[d7602002]

I agree with the OP. I know exactly what he means about a game being fun, but then tedious and tiresome by the end. I used to love nothing but shooting anything that moves, but then after playing different types of games I realized that sometimes the suspense is more exciting than the action.

What I mean by this is in ID games you enter a room and kill several creatures, then the next, do the same....then after getting the item you want more creatures spawn. So you are just thinking, kill, kill, kill...etc. Fun, but after a while, it can get monotonous. Yet while playing a game like Dead Space I would enter a room, wait for a creature and nothing. Walk down the hallway, expecting a creature, nothing. Enter another room not expecting something and blam, there it was. I felt that the game was more intense with nothing happening rather than a constant barrage of enemies.

I have played 23 hours of Doom 3 but the last 3 or 4 it's been just to finish the game. I am on ROE right now, with a couple levels left and am just trying to get to the end so I can say I completed it.

But on the contrary I have 27 hours of Assassin's Creed 2 and am only 1/2 way through it and it is still a joy to play. I sit at work waiting to get home to play it.

[Chicken_Wang]

Автор сообщения: maul

First of all i dont disagree with what you said here. However question could rather be what kind of FPS do you like? ID games might be similar but the reason i do love them is it most of the times is just fiction. I dont enjoy FPS games that is military based on reality like example COD. But i dont say it is bad games, it is just not my cop of tea. Also thing is todays games dont build up the same strong multiplayer system as the old ones simply because it come out more and more games and people moving on to next game. Before it was different because it wasent the same speed in creating more games i think. Also all the concoles. I do wonder if any games will have the amount of players at same time and under the amount of time as games as Quake 3 arena and counter strike and Unreal tournament had? I doubt that just because it is so many games that come. I dont think we will see any game that be as the old ones in the long turn so to speak. Just my opinion.

I enjoy any FPS game that appeals to me, Military or not. Many games like FEAR 3 or Crysis 3 I enjoyed, I also enjoyed other games like Deus Ex (Yea while it is an RPG at heart, it also is an FPS), and Prey. These are all GREAT games that people just look at and say "O look, another COD rip-off, BORING, imma go play my classics now and bash COD more for no reason" I agree with what you said here, COD has not been my Cup of Tea either (After 4, WaW, and MW2, that is when it started to fail), but I am just tired of people not giving other games a try based on ONE game. Glad that you gave some fine points too :)

[BIOHAZARDCURE]

I really wish that the multiplayer was still active in most id games...Its a damn shame.

[motorsep]

I wish I had time to read all these rants, but, Rage is an awesome game (with a few drawbacks such as lack of solid ending, lack of DLCs, lack of modding docs). I truly enjoyed it. Doom 3 BFG engine release was an awesome gift too :)

[lxRs451]

ID made only 1 game in past few years and that is Rage. I liked it but the second half of the game was worse.

[Chicken_Wang]

Автор сообщения: BIOHAZARDCURE

I really wish that the multiplayer was still active in most id games...Its a damn shame.

It really is, if there is one thing I like Id for, its multiplayer, wish more people would log back into Quake 4 on xbox since Q4 has no splitscreen multiplayer :C

[Shooter]

i think everyone who read the OP's first post till the end should get a trading card :)

[RZ]

When Todd H. left id I can't help but feel they are just running on borrowed time now, unless they really pull through with Doom 4 (which I don't think they will)

[motorsep]

They won't pull through with Doom 4 if you already raised your expectations bar way too high. I remember back in the days we just waited for their games without having unrealistic expectations.

It's like going to see a movie you already hear a lot of negative stuff about. You haven't even seen it yet, but because of negative hype you go to watch it thinking it's going to be a total crap. Same thing here.

[motorsep]

Rise of the Triad? Old-new game :) I haven't played it, but I read one exciting review where journalist added spoon of tar into a quite exciting review.

Either way, I personally would be happy with Rage like gameplay but in Hell, and with awesome final battle.