Archeblade > Feedback > Topic Details
Tower of Silence Apr 28, 2013 @ 3:46pm
Just downloaded it and played it for a few hours. I like it! But...
Hey everyone, just wanted to share my experiences which have so far been *gasp* good! Granted, I haven't played more than 5 hours so yeah... but since the purpose of the f2p model is to draw players in, I'd say first impressions are fairly important. So here are mine. Please take everything with a grain of salt as I am not that experienced. However, I'd argue that I am also not stupid nor incompetent. For the record, I have mostly played Flame Renny because I like fast characters (though she isn't all that fast sadly) plus she teleports and has a pretty devastating combo.

What I like
- The idea of combos and doing your own moves instead of pressing some skill key on the keyboard.
- The combat. Often up close and personal.
- Pulling off combos is satisfying. Hope more get added over time.
- Focus on teamwork.
- Regular updates.
- Classes/champions seem fairly balanced.

What I like less
- Now this has been put to death, but stunlocking IS kind of an issue, at least if Archeblade actually wants to be an action game rather than a MOBA. It is also my number one gripe with the game as it currently is and I'm not the only one.

I've gotten to the point where am starting to understand enemy attack patterns and how to avoid them. It has lead to me demolishing some foes with only simple attacks, simply because it stuns them. Likewise, sometimes I get tossed around mercilessly. That is fine by itself except for the fact that it does not offer much dynamics, depth or fun.

I understand the "Don't get hit" arguement (which by all means is valid), but in a game that is focussed on combat, this seems contradictory. It's like having a shooter game where you can oneshot everybody because "hey, don't get hit" (excluding headshots because those are usually difficult to pull off whereas combos not so much). I'm not saying dumb it down, just loosen it up a little so getting hit once isn't punishable by death in a 1v1.

- The speed seems a little on the low side and with speed I am mainly referring to movement speed. On less than crowded servers, getting around can be tedious and dashing/teleporting only gets you so far. A bit of a boost probably wouldn't hurt and will already help with dodging and evading attacks. At least make people work for connecting their hits.

- Blocking makes you a sitting duck which in turn makes you (arguably more) vulnerable. I'd rather see a counter + evasion system when properly timing dash/teleport or block. At least something to make it more useful and mobile.

- The idea of a sniper (what's her face) kind of evades me. Since most characters lack any decent (hitscan) long range attack option, it seems kind of silly to put a sniper in the game. If anything, at least make the snipe shot a skill so that they are encouraged to take part in the action rather than sitting somewhere in the back taking potshots. Also the ability that magically shoots bullet from the sky (I think it is?) is kind of ridiculous if it has no AoE you can get out of (ignore this if there is).

What I'd like to see (more of)
- Team autobalance, but that should be coming our way soon.
- More content, but that's a given. It's early access and all. More specifically, I'd like to see more maps rather than characters.
- A duel/tournament mode where you battle it out 1v1 or 2v2 tops.
- PvE would be pretty cool but would require an insane amount of work. Maybe something for later?
- Better training/tutorial (in the works I think). Please help players understand that this game focusses for a large part on strategic placement and not much on crazy action fighting e.g. button mashing. The combat is far too unforgiving for that at the moment. Will stop players from getting the impression that they can just jump into a fight and make a difference.
- Better awareness of rank, exp, what affects it, etc.
- More info on the character stats, roles and abilities.
- The ability to pick at least one starter character without having to pay for them. Seems picky seeing the weekly rotational system, but as a beginner I'd rather have something I can hold on to.

So, props to the devs for putting down a solid start. Whatever direction the game will take is out of my hands, but I hope I have provided some insights into what new players such as myself may find when playing the game for the first few hours.

Disclaimer: My opinion is neither right nor wrong as it is an opinion and exactly that. Feel free to argue my points though.
Last edited by Tower of Silence; Apr 28, 2013 @ 3:47pm
Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
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Maestromind Apr 28, 2013 @ 7:32pm 
Thanks for the feedback!

Most everything you listed is in the works. :]
CAST Sliferx Apr 28, 2013 @ 9:06pm 
Originally posted by mhd995:

What I like
- The idea of combos and doing your own moves instead of pressing some skill key on the keyboard.
- The combat. Often up close and personal.
- Pulling off combos is satisfying. Hope more get added over time.
- Focus on teamwork.
- Regular updates.
- Classes/champions seem fairly balanced.

What I like less
- Now this has been put to death, but stunlocking IS kind of an issue, at least if Archeblade actually wants to be an action game rather than a MOBA. It is also my number one gripe with the game as it currently is and I'm not the only one.


- The speed seems a little on the low side and with speed I am mainly referring to movement speed. On less than crowded servers, getting around can be tedious and dashing/teleporting only gets you so far. A bit of a boost probably wouldn't hurt and will already help with dodging and evading attacks. At least make people work for connecting their hits.

- Blocking makes you a sitting duck which in turn makes you (arguably more) vulnerable. I'd rather see a counter + evasion system when properly timing dash/teleport or block. At least something to make it more useful and mobile.



Disclaimer: My opinion is neither right nor wrong as it is an opinion and exactly that. Feel free to argue my points though.

Well your first impressions are good compared to some other silly impressions. However, there are some things i need to note.

1)Stunlocking is fine, fighting games tend to have lots of stunlocking? (at least in doing some crazy combos) and this is far from MOBA, the only thing that might give the impression that this is a MOBA game is NetherDale and the 2 rage skills.

2) I dont really want this to be some S4/GunZ game, those are shooters and this is a fighting game. Speed is really fine for this game, so i don't really know why some people want a boost (it could probably ruin the game as well)

3) As for blocking, i think you got the wrong impression about it? i mean just blocking attacks will lead to death, because as you said you're just a sitting duck. Blocking has to be used while being mobile, not just sitting there the whole time blocking without doing anything else. I think this video might be able to explain my point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWMC7kTcwAA
Tower of Silence Apr 29, 2013 @ 4:09am 
Your point on blocking is fair. Seems like I need to get used it more. Still, I'd think that a well timed block should have some sort of function, like evading the attack or repelling the attacker.

I also don't want this to be S4/Gunz, but I still feel the speed is a little on the slow side for it to be an action game. My main gripe is that traveling relatively large distances on larger maps like NetherDale is kind of a pain and takes the flow out of the game a little.

As for the stunlocking, I feel the combos are too easy to pull of in comparison to more complex and timing sensitive fighter games. If you get caught then, it is a matter of how well the opponent can finish the combo. If they pull it off correctly (which is usally quite the chore) your death is deserved. In Archeblade, you practically don't have to worry about them being able to pull it off since it's just a (short) combination of using the mouse buttons. I guess I'd propose that only some parts of a combo actually cause stun/knock down so it's not just a matter of who gets hit first but rather who can line up their attacks well enough (follow ups) that gets a fair shot at a finisher.

Thanks for the replies :)
hickwarrior Apr 29, 2013 @ 10:33am 
Originally posted by mhd995:
Your point on blocking is fair. Seems like I need to get used it more. Still, I'd think that a well timed block should have some sort of function, like evading the attack or repelling the attacker.

I also don't want this to be S4/Gunz, but I still feel the speed is a little on the slow side for it to be an action game. My main gripe is that traveling relatively large distances on larger maps like NetherDale is kind of a pain and takes the flow out of the game a little.

As for the stunlocking, I feel the combos are too easy to pull of in comparison to more complex and timing sensitive fighter games. If you get caught then, it is a matter of how well the opponent can finish the combo. If they pull it off correctly (which is usally quite the chore) your death is deserved. In Archeblade, you practically don't have to worry about them being able to pull it off since it's just a (short) combination of using the mouse buttons. I guess I'd propose that only some parts of a combo actually cause stun/knock down so it's not just a matter of who gets hit first but rather who can line up their attacks well enough (follow ups) that gets a fair shot at a finisher.

Thanks for the replies :)

But wouldn't that still say that you want the game more action-y? Increasing the speed does that. That's what I believe.

As you said, this game feels more strategic. Positioning plays much more of a role. Getting hitstunned and being ganged on is basically part of the game. If you are out of position, you should be punished for it, either by heavy damage or death.

I just don't agree that hitstunning and the slow speed make it a lesser game, the speed is fine actually.

Blocking can and will help. It's when you stop blocking and move quickly enough to avoid other incoming blows. Of course, lag can be a problem on that part. But, it can give the time to get some space, or keep the enemy focused on you, for your teammate to attack the your enemy.

As for Renoah(sniper), if she isn't focused by someone on your team, you're doing it wrong. Her sniping ability should be something you should fear and rightly. Otherwise, she has no reason to exist other than being something your opponents eat for breakfast. Characters have to have something threatening about them, otherwise what's the point?

As for Renoah's Q(the one you notice is targetting you), I know Sewon's(monk) F skill, purge, will get that debuff off of you. On the other hand, Elrath's Q, magic shield, protects ytou from any debuff and Renoah's Q skill is counted towards that pool. However, those are the 2 characters I know that can peel off that skill.

Other than that, I agree with this.
Tower of Silence Apr 29, 2013 @ 2:44pm 
Didn't know about the debuff thing, I'm guessing I'm also not the only one because I've never seen any of those folks go around and doing something about it. Thanks for the heads up though. Still, it's a little silly that it can hit everyone on the map regardless of distance. Block helps obviously, but it still dishes out a fair share of pain to whoever is unlucky enough to get caught in it.

I'm not saying the hitstun and speed make it a lesser game, I just feel it is less in the direction I would personally go. I'm a fan of more open combat systems such as Warframe or Overgrowth, where aim, speed, timing and reflexes are key. Overgrowth is still very unforgiving due to the fact that you can still get kicked and punched silly if you're not careful (inexperienced). However, once you get better you will sometimes get very interesting and exciting fights going on due to the fact that properly dodging, blocking, countering and attacking at the right moments is a very difficult thing to master. But if you pull it off, it feels very satisfying and doesn't give the other guy any reason to complain because he was consistently being outperformed. Note that I'm just trying to elaborate the mechanics and dynamics of these systems, I'm not saying that ArcheBlade should copy it.

With the combat system in ArcheBlade, it's more of the matter who gets his/her combo going first (assuming a 1v1) which for all intents and purposes could be pure luck. Since combos are already so easy, you're usually done for. I get the purpose of this, but it focusses more on the strategy and the importance of who gets the first hit rather than action. This is why I feel that the combat in ArcheBlade is less "open", meaning that one mistake or stroke of poor luck can instantly mean the end of you as you powerlessly watch yourself being pummeled. I'd rather see cleverly timed evades and counters, a battle of wits, cunning and timing. More sparring, less destructive chains of death. Note that I'm more often than not the guy doing the stunlocking, so it's not raging or ranting. I just prefer being constantly challenged rather than looking for that one moment to end it all.

On the other hand I like the importance of proper positioning before attempting to attack so I definitely don't want ArcheBlade to go all gung ho or wallrunning and whatnot. It just that the action part falls completely flat for both parties the moment somebody is up in the air. So I would suggest to either have a way to get out of stunlocks once in a while or make the combos more difficult so there is actually room for error. I'd prefer the latter with easier combos being less devastating as it fits better in the game I think. I'd also like to stress that I think more accurate timing would (or should) play a role in this. Kind of like a quicktime event where you have a limited window to respond, only you know exactly when and what to press so it doesn't suck.

That said, I've begun to get used to the overal pace of the game more and have found that it fits the combat as it currently is. I've also switched to Tiac and found he is actually much more mobile and quick on his feet than Renny save for the teleport which strikes me as odd. Also, in spite of my "criticism" (which is basically just personal preference) I am having a blast so far ;)

TL;DR: Once more combos are in the game, the deadly/long ones should be (much) harder to pull off. Since pressing LMB and RMB isn't that difficult, proper timing and aiming should play a much bigger role.
hickwarrior Apr 29, 2013 @ 4:27pm 
Well, to put your 1 stunlock and you're gone thing into a different perspective:

I know certain chars cannot do what you think they can do in a 1v1 situation. Ice Renny cannot kill in one combo. Maybe the squishiest of targets might get killed, but it usually doesn't happen. Same with Valle, she cannot pull off a 1 hit to combo KO at all.

I think it's to do with the team element here where someone can be juggled senseless due to other teammates timing their attack to keep them floating.

Also, chars can stand on your head. so if they're floating high enough and you get under them, you mess up your combo.

It might seem like I am arguing for the sake of it, but I do think you are misconstruing the thing I'm talking about.

It's about teams actually dealing all that damage in one fell swoop. Not a lone character itself. Some characters can and will do it, but they are made for it.
Tower of Silence Apr 30, 2013 @ 10:37am 
To be fair, you are right. I did notice that not everybody has killer combos or locks and that landing on somebody's head is a viable combo breaker if you can get there. I also agree on the team element and the importance of teaming up with the right crowd at the right time.

I guess my point is that I think that the moves you can currently pull off are too rewarding for the effort that is put into them. Or at least, some of them are. This causes you to get dead or hurt very quickly, a little too quick for a game that classifies itself as an action game in my opinion. It doesn't take a mastermind to get a hit or to execute a combo meaning the focus is almost entirely on the strategy part of the game with team compositions, positioning and coordination. Personally, I'd like to see a little more player finesse and creativity in the combat/combo parts, so that choosing the right combo/attack at the right time and being able to pull it off is considered a challenge as much as exploiting the opponent's mistakes.

I feel that upping the overal pace of the game is one way to do that, as landing a succesful hit requires better timing and aim, dodging an attack becomes easier due to being able to exploit the timing window of attacks better and combos finish earlier meaning stunlocks are far less annoying to be in. The strategy still exists since nothing technically changed, but there is less time to think or react, so more room for mistakes on players' part making encounters much more interesting. This makes the action aspect in the game much more prominent and noticeable without throwing strategy out the window.

To be honest, I'd like to try a few rounds with about 10% faster gameplay just to see what it would be like. It may be awful and break a lot of things, but it could also be a valid remedy for some if not most of the things that are less exciting about ArcheBlade. I recall there being gamespeed modifiers in some games like StarCraft and all respectable matches there are played on the fastest speed which implies that speed is indeed relevant even in strategy focussed games. I'm pretty sure this also goes for some fighting games. Perhaps it would be an interesting experiment to allow servers to set such a modifier? Whatever is more popular would work best for the majority of the playerbase I reckon. Plus it's optional.
Sunsets May 4, 2013 @ 5:23am 
Why not?
If its optional I dont see what the problem is. rofl but if most players start doing it, the others wont have much of a choice but to go along with it rofl.

lol all this talk about stun lock and once your knocked into the air and its pretty much over?
Pretty much the reason I mainly use Dan Mei and Tiac (Salvation!) xD
So glad u like Tiac.
Oh look a group of 3-4 enemies coming this way..TIME TO SPRINT JUMP IN AND USE DRAGONS VALOR/EMBRACE OF THE EMPRESS AND F*** S*** UP!!!
"NOW WHERE ARE THOSE SQUISHIES AT!?!"
Unless of course they all scatter like roaches the moment I close in/leap in screaming "REEDEMPTIOOON!!!"
Fun times.
Though Dan Mei has better catching methods than Tiac, plus Snare for a Dragon prevents (those without telaport) to run away. and then theres his infinite JL juggle. ~Glorious~
Also, Embrace of the Empress nullifies ALL damage, meaning no damage against Renoahs 1337 special. But it costs you..all your RP x.x
>:D
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