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Inuakurei Apr 19, 2013 @ 5:43pm
73 Hours played. My experiences
Upon request I am editing my post to include more constructive criticism about my 73 hours played. Overall the game is fun and has potential.

After 73 Hours played these are my experiences.

Character Balance
I mostly played as Sewon during my gameplay but I played every character at least once. Overall I feel as if most characters have something broken about them, some in an ok way and some not so much.

Sewon
I concider Sewon my main so I have a bit more to say about him than the others. His concept is good but a few things get in the way of his gameplay style. People say his ground attack is too slow but honestly it's just fine. If you block then time his shift right you can counter just about any character mid combo. If it was any faster it would be way too overpowered when combined with his shift ability.

His shift is extremely iffy though in it's activation. Sometimes it activates and works perfectly, sometimes it doesn't and the sound will go off but I will get hit anyway, and sometimes I'll get hit directly after doing it by the attack I dodged.

His Q is extremely buggy as well. Sometimes it will target allies instead of enemies, sometimes it will not activate at all on an enemy right in front of me, sometimes it will activate but I'll be hit out of it (it's supposed to have super armor), sometimes it will activate and complete but not swap health, sometimes it will activate but then leave me unable to block directly after, even if I am in the blocking stance, and lastly if it swaps with a enemy that dies before it finishes, it will leave Sewon in an invincible state.

And lastly It would be helpful of his heal visual is changed to represent the range better. Every single person stands inside the circle because they think you must be in the circle to be healed, when in fact you only need to be near Sewon and the heal range is quite bigger than the circle.

Overall Sewon is fine aside from the bugs and visual, probably one of the more balanced characters.

Valle
She is pretty balanced as well, not much to say about her. Her spinning attack seems to have a weird hitbox, sometimes it will hit on the first swing sometimes not but other than that no real complaints. I've heard of people complain about her LLR attack, but its easily countered.

Dan Mei
Another character that is pretty good right now. Hes strong without being broken, good attack very strong Q, but tall, easily hit, and easily juggled. Played correctly he does well without being too strong.

Elrath
She is ok but slightly on the overpowered side. The main reason for this is that she deals incredible damage from both close and far range while having an easy way to escape. She can teleport into the air and sit there for as long as she needs, holding her orb until you either make a mistake or get bored enough to let her hit you. I have had so many Steam Canal matches where the match would come down to a 1v1 of her vs a melee that would last over 10 minutes. The main problem is that she can teleport into the air and sit there until she feels like coming down, that combined with the wall makes her impossible to catch. I purpose making the teleport either cost more stamina, not be able to teleport above a certain height, or not go as far. Also either reduce her ranged or melee damage, but not both.


♥♥♥♥ & Gasper
I'm going to add ♥♥♥♥ and Gasper in the same section because they both suffer from the same problems, only Gasper is more annoying. They seem like they are supposed to be ranged characters but if so their L attacks are way too fast and damaging. I believe they both have the fastest ground L attack in the game, with the added bonus of their third L attack being multi hit. They should not be this effective at all ranges. Either reduce the damage or more preferably, make the initial L attack slower.

Also they both have deploy-able things as F abilities (wards and mines) both of which have no limit on the number that can be stacked. If ♥♥♥♥ gets on a roll he can replenish all of a teams armor in 1 second, and Gasper can insta kill anyone walking out of a spawn area. Consider making a limit on the amount that can be placed at once or making them expire after a while. Also ♥♥♥♥'s wards can be placed in a wall making them unable to be hit while still restoring armor.

Elika
Elika is possibly the most broken character next to Tiac, but not for the reasons people think she is. Her attacks actually do not combo and have considerable delay between them, shes easily blocked and countered. It just appears like she is stun locking you but she can be countered mid combo by just about anyone. The problem is in her jumpL. Her jumpL has a considerable amount of block stun, no recovery, and a follow up attack that makes it un-punishable. Also her Q has 0 start up and makes her completely invincible while doing it (I know this because Gasper's Q will not hit her while she is using her Q). This makes it too good of a “spam when in trouble” button and instantly gets you out of a bad situation. Othat than that shes not all that overpowered, just very good noob stomping character.

Fren & Iren
Fren's tornado is too strong. She can spam it from a distance and instantly kill any character from a lucky hit. The problem lies in it being able to be launched with the direction changed after R is pressed, combined with her being able to teleport to a hit character into a 100%-0% air combo. Also another problem is that it can be launched from behind a wall or obstacle. Change it so that once R is hit, the direction of the tornado can't be changed, that way it can be countered and will promote careful useage rather than spam, and make it not go through walls.

Iren is good where is she as well. Deals good damage while having a good amount of CC. People consider her underpowered because she is harder to use and can't 100%-0 any character in one combo. Shes actually one of the few balanced characters, it's just that the others are a bit too strong, so they overshadow her.

Tiac
In my opinion easily the most broken character in the game. He has no weakness. His main issue is that his sheild blocks all CC, nearly all damage, and can be spammed over and over again and a dash to keep the gap closed. All of this combined with his good damage and a burn makes him a brick powerhouse with the shield up. The logical thing to do is run and wait it out, but his dash means that any good Tiac will easily close the gap. Either make the shield last a shorter amount of time, or make it so he can't gain RP while the shield is up so it can't be spammed. While it's up he is just an invincible god with no way to run away from him.

Renoah
She is at a good place right now too, she deals good damage while having a weakness to rush down. People complain about her Q but it;s countered by Sewon's F so its not as bad as people think. Plus it costs a lot of RP so it can't be spammed.
Cezane
Cezane is good, perhaps a little on the op side. His jumpL (or is it jumpR? The spiky ball thing) is a little too good. It has a much bigger range than the animation appears and can stunlock an entire team if used well. Just reduce the range on it and Cezane is fine.


Maps
I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the maps in this game.

Steam Canal
Steam Canal has too many exploits to be considered a good map. Elrath can stall a game by standing on the roof and putting up a wall so noone can jump up to her. Renoah can cheese out a game by using the teleporter to get up on the ledge, step back, aim her gun and wait. Any character can sit on the outer edge of the bridge and be nearly untouchable. Gasper can place mines at the spawn that are near impossible to see and instantly kill the enemy team, because of the design of the map it causes ranged vs melee matchups to be a nightmare. There are more reasons but I won't go into them, people already complain about this.

Undersiege
Undersiege is ok with one bad flaw, it is not symmetrical. The purple side (the side with the small room as the spawn) is at a high disadvantage to the blue side. The small house is too easily camped by characters like Elika or ghost dude who have big aoe abilities. Also the stairs are a choke point nightmare, making it almost impossible to go down without being ambushed unless the enemy team is nice and let you down.

Also the spawn timer for Undersiege needs to be instant. There is a spawn that happens every 20 seconds, but way too often 2 character will die, then the 3rd will die, but only the first 2 respawn. This is because after you die the camera takes 2-3 seconds to show your lifeless body, then 3-4 seconds zooming in on the person who killed you, and this extra 7 seconds or so can cause you to miss the spawn time, leaving you to wait 20seconds while your 2 allies are alive.

This creates another problem of spawn camping being too powerful where you can rack 4-5 kills by camping the spawn because round after round of spawns will spawn only 2 out of 3 players. This eventually gets corrected but by then the enemy has already racked up 5 or so kills and even if they all die it's a net gain of 2 kills.

The time in which you can respawn needs to happen instantly, in order to prevent this from happening as much as possibly.

I haven't played much of the other game modes (another problem, separation of game modes from maps. Why not allow 3v3 30point Steam Canal or 5v5 4round Undersiege?) so I can't comment too much on them.

(I'll add more to this post tomorrow, time for bed now x.x)
Last edited by Inuakurei; Apr 21, 2013 @ 8:34pm
Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
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DYSEQTA Apr 19, 2013 @ 6:09pm 
Originally posted by Inuakurei:
I wont go into detail but I'll bring up some issues I have with the game....I have many more issues but to avoid tldr; I'll stop here.

You are commenting in the forum of an open beta test. Your target reader is the developers of the game. tl;dr and too much detail don't apply here. Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ what other players think of your post? It's the devs that need your information, not them.
Last edited by DYSEQTA; Apr 19, 2013 @ 6:09pm
Candy Fang Apr 20, 2013 @ 1:31pm 
that after 73 hours, yous till think most characters are broken, kinda proves to me, that you ran through the game with blindfolds, never trying to udnerstand it.
The game is INTENDED to give characters MORE than jksut an edge, meaning, there is a very high chance every character can kill you, after you have only been hit once.
Be it through sheer damage, endless stunlocks, juggling etc.
Thats what makes the game HARD, Player Skill intensive, and interesting.

As for your other points, I do agree.

Maps are quite poor, basic things (like spawn killing) are still missing, proper layout and so on.

Bugs: I hardly encountered any myself, but I know of two sever bugs which I hope get killed soon: one being the not playable netherdale map, the other being a working cheat engine. And yes, sadly someone showe me proof ingame that it indeed does work.

Lags:
OHHH YES!
This is probably the most frustrating for me and made me greatly reduce playing time.
ping under 100 and fps way over 40, my character still gets teleported back after dodging (renny or elrath), im getting hits from far away and so on.

Then again, Kokoro is right, those posts here are mainly for the devs, which makes me hope there will soon be a list thats gets updated REGURLARLY what bugs / problems the Devs acknowledge as such.
I know there is a list of sorts, but many bugs / problems that get reported all the tim (and im not talking about the useles Nerf requests) dont show up, which leads me to believe the list isnt really cared for.
Maestromind Apr 21, 2013 @ 1:49pm 
Just to add to this conversation the list is cared for. This is a small development team and I will work for a bit more transparency in regards as to what exactly is going on.

Until then I invite you to read this post and to let you know your feedback is appreciated and is read.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/207230/discussions/0/828935269295091958/
Neoneas Apr 23, 2013 @ 12:13pm 
but if the developers get the wrong feedback ?!

@Inuakurei
Gasper: I'm just getting good at hitting with his jump + R attack even tho I played at least 50-60 games with him. I don't think that you want to get his melee attacks nerfed because then will every gasper kite and jump + R you to death...

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I pretty much fought vs all classes played by good players and I never had a problem. It's always the same: If youre too slow or do a mistake -> you'll get punished: stun, 1 hit or much damage.

I won't get into detail because most of the classes are pretty good designed and I think that it will never be 100% balanced but currently I've 2 OP and 2 UP Classes.

OP:
Elika -> Learning curve is too small, get killed regulary by rank 1-3 players just by spamming the combos.
Elrath -> You wrote it: shes bugged, her range AND melee attacks are very strong and the same as with elika - rank 1-3 are doing tripple kills by spamming R attack

UP:
Monk -> Not enough damage, I dont understand the shift skill but his life swap skill is very nice - a bit hard to master but very good.
Renoah -> It would be great if there would be a way to attack from melee without using all her bullets. I always crush new players who are playing Renoah because of that.

---------------------------------------------------

@devs Thanks again for this awesome game and please don't take every troll, hater or Flamer serious.
Candy Fang Apr 23, 2013 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Neoneas:

OP:
Elika -> Learning curve is too small, get killed regulary by rank 1-3 players just by spamming the combos.

That kinda says it all.
You get owned by rank 3 players spamming one combo. For me, that doesnt mean the character is OP, it jsut means you have no clue countering her.
Big Boom Boom Apr 23, 2013 @ 5:31pm 
Renoah Q can only be negated by Dan Mei Q and Sewon F after testing. Renoah Q the animation where she shoot the bullet is invincible, though after the shot is fired she can be killed even before the bullet hits all. I personally think that is a bit broken that you can NOT stop it unless you're Dan Mei/Sewon, it will go through Valle Q and Cezanne Shift.
Inuakurei Apr 24, 2013 @ 1:45pm 
Originally posted by Neoneas:
but if the developers get the wrong feedback ?!

@Inuakurei
Gasper: I'm just getting good at hitting with his jump + R attack even tho I played at least 50-60 games with him. I don't think that you want to get his melee attacks nerfed because then will every gasper kite and jump + R you to death...

------------------------------------------------------

I pretty much fought vs all classes played by good players and I never had a problem. It's always the same: If youre too slow or do a mistake -> you'll get punished: stun, 1 hit or much damage.

I won't get into detail because most of the classes are pretty good designed and I think that it will never be 100% balanced but currently I've 2 OP and 2 UP Classes.

OP:
Elika -> Learning curve is too small, get killed regulary by rank 1-3 players just by spamming the combos.
Elrath -> You wrote it: shes bugged, her range AND melee attacks are very strong and the same as with elika - rank 1-3 are doing tripple kills by spamming R attack

UP:
Monk -> Not enough damage, I dont understand the shift skill but his life swap skill is very nice - a bit hard to master but very good.
Renoah -> It would be great if there would be a way to attack from melee without using all her bullets. I always crush new players who are playing Renoah because of that.

---------------------------------------------------

@devs Thanks again for this awesome game and please don't take every troll, hater or Flamer serious.

Monk could use a slight damage buff, but hes pretty balanced right now. His job is to lock enemis down with his j.R, bait people to attack him with his heal, and just be generally annoying, not to kill people. His weakness is his low-ish hp, slow & low ranged ground combo, and low damage.

Renoah is fine, every character needs a weakness. Shes 100% a ranged character, she should be weak to rush downs like Valle and Taic. Giving her better melee attacks will just make her too good in team play. Shes weak 1v1 but very good if the team can keep the enemy away from her, that is balanced.

Unbalanced is when you give a character no weakness. The perfect example of this is Gasper. Gasper has great ranged damage with kiting capabilities, the fastest ground combo in the game which also includes a multi hit attack, and a decent health pool on top of it all, making him deadly at any range.
Inuakurei Apr 24, 2013 @ 5:45pm 
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternus:
that after 73 hours, yous till think most characters are broken, kinda proves to me, that you ran through the game with blindfolds, never trying to udnerstand it.
The game is INTENDED to give characters MORE than jksut an edge, meaning, there is a very high chance every character can kill you, after you have only been hit once.
Be it through sheer damage, endless stunlocks, juggling etc.
Thats what makes the game HARD, Player Skill intensive, and interesting.

It's just my preference I guess. I like longer more dynamic battles of positioning, dodging, blocking, etc. Currently the way it stands whoever gets the first hit wins in most situations save for a few characters, and to me that's just not ideal. But then again thats in a 1v1 senario, which this game isn't based around, so perhaps the current damage ratios are for the best.
$cno0B! Apr 28, 2013 @ 8:42am 
elika is fine except here escape q button like thread starter said
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