Archeblade > Suggestions > Topic Details
{}poOp{} Bobert13 May 1, 2013 @ 6:12pm
Throws/Grabs
Yea or nay? What say ye!

I was playing some Nagaspit earlier and there was this turtling D!ck who'd sit in a corner blocking while regening armor, and I though to myself, "self, why doesn't this game have throws to counter cheese tactics like this?"

I'm well aware of Alt+R guard breaks but you could use a whole bar of RP breaking his guard and it would be unlikely you'd ever wear him down to his HP. Not to mention, the chances of some Elika/Renoah/Elrath shooting you in the back on that map while you whittle him down are pretty high.

Preferably, throws wouldn't allow juggling afterwards and would create some sort of distance between you and your opponent. It'd be really nice if you could determine which way you were throwing the enemy as well (similar to F Renny's tornado in function). For some characters it may make more sense for the enemy to be left standing still while the player moves (Renoah for example, could plant a bomb, jump off of her opponent with a backflip followed by a shot from the shotgun and then the bomb explodes; see, throw!)

Obviously getting smacked in the face after you start the throw, but before the throw lands would stop the animation, and a timed block as a "parry" for throws may be worth considering to prevent "throw spamming". Once the throw lands, you should take damage should you be hit from a third party, but it shouldn't interrupt the throw.

TL:DR
Besides the added levels of "Epic" throws could bring to the game, it could also add in a new tactical layer to fights. Lot's of action/fighting games have them, and throws are a much needed addition to this game IMO.
Last edited by {}poOp{} Bobert13; May 1, 2013 @ 6:21pm
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
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Emonium May 1, 2013 @ 6:31pm 
Please no :(
nux May 1, 2013 @ 10:28pm 
I would say at least one character should have a grab. Every MOBA needs a Pudge.
Cytrode May 1, 2013 @ 10:41pm 
As a former Rakion Player, I have to say I'm against grabs if only for one reason. There are few things less entertaining than being chain-grabbed by multiple people while you watch yourself slowly die and can do nothing about it. Unless they added a mechanic that made it so you could not be grabbed again for a brief time after being grabbed it would be exploited in this manner.

It would be like being chain-juggled by multiple people as it stands right now, except instead of being over within a couple seconds it lasts over 10.
{}poOp{} Bobert13 May 1, 2013 @ 11:06pm 
Originally posted by Emonium:
Please no :(

Care to elaborate? I personally feel this game could use the added complexity, and if implemented right I think most valid points against throws/grabs could be at least mitigated, if not, outright negated.

Originally posted by Cytrode:
As a former Rakion Player, I have to say I'm against grabs if only for one reason. There are few things less entertaining than being chain-grabbed by multiple people while you watch yourself slowly die and can do nothing about it. Unless they added a mechanic that made it so you could not be grabbed again for a brief time after being grabbed it would be exploited in this manner.

It would be like being chain-juggled by multiple people as it stands right now, except instead of being over within a couple seconds it lasts over 10.

I can agree that losing control of your character outright for 10 or more seconds is just plain annoying. There's a number of ways they could approach this issue. For a full-on throw, the thrown character's body could essentially become a projectile. Not saying make it high damage or anything (8-10 maybe), just make it activate hitstun.

With a parry system in-place, enemies trying to chain-throw you could end up on the receiving end of some serious damage. To enhance this, an artificial lockout to throws (like you suggested) could make abusing throws/grabs downright impossible.
Last edited by {}poOp{} Bobert13; May 2, 2013 @ 12:22am
DYSEQTA May 2, 2013 @ 12:04am 
Originally posted by mshoap13:
There's a number of ways they could approach this issue. For a full-on throw, the thrown character's body could essentially become a projectile. Not saying make it high damage or anything (8-10 maybe), just make it activate hitstun. With a parry system in-place, enemies trying to chain-throw you could end up on the receiving end of some serious damage.
Not saying I am for or against this idea but the imagery I had of Elika tossing Tiac into an oncoming team like a bowling ball just brought a smile to my face ;)
Tower of Silence May 2, 2013 @ 1:46am 
I don't know. Grabs tend to get very spammy and if they can just break through your block like it's nothing... On the other hand, the blocking could use some more depth in it. Adding a risk factor to using it could help with that.
DYSEQTA May 2, 2013 @ 2:22am 
Ok picture this. A squishy gets assaulted by a gold Tiac. "So just block and wait it out you whiner!" Ok I'll wait it out... "Oh ♥♥♥♥!" *Tiac tosses me in a lava pit*.

We can't really punish blocking in this game. It's really the only thing that levels the playing field somewhat. As much as I would love to bowl with a Tiac or two I really don't think it would be a good mechanic in this game (well not as a guard breaker anyway).
Last edited by DYSEQTA; May 2, 2013 @ 2:23am
{}poOp{} Bobert13 May 2, 2013 @ 3:13am 
Why block? Why not get the hell out of there so he's not filling his RP bar on your shield? Better yet, why not throw him into the lava pit?

Tiac would be a good character for a grab. >.>
DYSEQTA May 2, 2013 @ 4:13am 
Because I'm Elika. It's very hard to run from Tiac as Elika.
Last edited by DYSEQTA; May 2, 2013 @ 4:13am
Emonium May 2, 2013 @ 5:30am 
Originally posted by mshoap13:
Care to elaborate? I personally feel this game could use the added complexity, and if implemented right I think most valid points against throws/grabs could be at least mitigated, if not, outright negated.
We can already gaurd break using ALT. It almost makes power attacks pointless because people don't seem to use it for damage very much and only certain characters actually do extra damage with their power attacks. It may also be better this way because people will be able to defend themselves when they're low on HP and attempt to recover or have that moment to think up a quick strategy to possibly win or get away. I feel like that's as complex as the game needs to get. It should be the kinda game people can just jump into and learn. Not every fighter needs to have a bunch of mechanics that make it difficult to master.
Though I do agree with a parry system being placed if thowing was to be decided on
Last edited by Emonium; May 2, 2013 @ 5:32am
{}poOp{} Bobert13 May 2, 2013 @ 2:02pm 
Originally posted by Emonium:
We can already gaurd break using ALT. It almost makes power attacks pointless because people don't seem to use it for damage very much and only certain characters actually do extra damage with their power attacks. It may also be better this way because people will be able to defend themselves when they're low on HP and attempt to recover or have that moment to think up a quick strategy to possibly win or get away. I feel like that's as complex as the game needs to get. It should be the kinda game people can just jump into and learn. Not every fighter needs to have a bunch of mechanics that make it difficult to master.
Though I do agree with a parry system being placed if thowing was to be decided on

You sir have given the first response with reasoning against throws that doesn't assume they'll be implemented in an easily exploitable manner. I will say that Guard Breaks are only situationally useful now considering what you get for 1 RP bar. I could also see new players getting tossed around a lot around the time they find the E key.
Soulfire May 8, 2013 @ 12:34pm 
I was actually thinking throws would be cool before, but then it brings up the issue of balance with guarding. Either guard has to block grabs as well, or the grab/throw key should be able to counter a grab and give the person countering temporary damage invulnerability and super armor (time enough to throw guard back up when being assailed) and apply a staggering animation to the person who initiated the grab, leaving them open for a counterattack for their attempt at a free guard break.
CAST Sliferx May 8, 2013 @ 3:48pm 
Nay, just look at the game called Anarchy reigns... god the grabs there =_=
Teinta Kukoro May 12, 2013 @ 11:05pm 
I won't say no as i think the combat could use more in it, but it will need to be done right. so i have two questions
1: how much damage are you thinking these will do?
2:Are these cinematic throws like those in Anarchy reigns or more of the kind of grabs in Rusty hearts where you pick them up and can walk a bit before throwing them?

Also my friend asks are these free for use or is there some kind of cost or cooldown before each use?
{}poOp{} Bobert13 May 13, 2013 @ 1:44am 
Originally posted by Yūki Terumi:
I won't say no as i think the combat could use more in it, but it will need to be done right. so i have two questions
1: how much damage are you thinking these will do?
2:Are these cinematic throws like those in Anarchy reigns or more of the kind of grabs in Rusty hearts where you pick them up and can walk a bit before throwing them?

Also my friend asks are these free for use or is there some kind of cost or cooldown before each use?

1. 30 to 40 depending on the character performing the throw/grab. No bonus for back hits. Possibly bonus damage for say, throwing someone off the bridge on Steam Canal; but not much, maybe 10 or so.

2. Semi-cinematic but still short and sweet. No cutscene or camera angle changes though. Think Tekken style throws. Different character's throws would function quite differently. Ideally, Renoah's would be an escape, Cezzane's would be a "pull", Danmei's would launch the opponent quite a long way, etc.. Whatever feels like it would work best (for character's lacking something/or something that feels under-represented in their moveset) or, isn't too OP (for characters that are already really good), for each specific character.

3. Not entirely opposed to having something like 3 grab "points" that replenish slowly over time (or something similar) but I don't think it will really be necessary. Especially not if A) they're counterable through a parry system and B) they're very difficult if-not impossible to chain together with team mates (I'm thinking auto-parry for a short duration after landing for the thrown character; as discussed above). Characters that have an armor skill that grants them immunity to stuns probably shouldn't be allowed to throw during said armor, but may or may not be throwable (needs play-testing).
Last edited by {}poOp{} Bobert13; May 13, 2013 @ 1:58am
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