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Archeblade > Character Balance > Topic Details
alpacaW Apr 21, 2013 @ 1:49am
Balancing and Ideas
I know a lot of people have been talking about balancing issues and such, and some say there was a pinned thread about it, but I don't see it sooooo... Yeah.
Anyways. I find that in 3v3 games there is too little to rely on, other than yourself in it. The map is small, and some characters have a disadvantage compared to others. For example, the ranger character, can't do much, except for long range it seems like. Other characters with high attack speed, can easily take her down, mainly becase of her being not as good in close combat, and that there is a "stun" every time you take damage.
Because of this, I believe there shouldn't be stuns in this manner, but certain characters with certain abilities that do, and including something similar to combo breakers. This is probably also the case with FFA games.
7v7 is fine, since you find your teammates everywhere you look, in a full lobby.
I think healing is a little overpowered because only certain characters seem to have it, and there doesn't seem to be a way for other characters to heal at all in 3v3s. The only ways I could think of is allow the carrying of items, such as health potions, or nerf the heal, ie. Heal is only applied to that character and only for 30% HP, and is cancelled upon getting hit, or moving.

This game honestly has to be structured like a conventional MOBA or like the game Forge, which is very similar to this, but in Forge, each ability caters to a different aspect, like escaping, damage over time, disables (slows, stuns, blinds, etc.)

Hopefully Devs actually see this, because it is great to get feedback from other people, especially those who have played games like this before... although the only one I can think of is Forge... but that's balanced very well.
I think the Devs could learn a lot by playing Forge, Bloodline Champions, League of Legends, Dota, Heroes of Newerth, etc. as those are all games that must be balanced well in order for the game to be entertaining, and when making characters, once the general idea of character traits, and abilities, the first thing they should thing of, is how to make this character not under/overpowered.

I do realize that this game is in open beta right now, and hopefully as time passes there are many patches for these kinds of things. But, to be honest, there are many games out there that are in open beta and still are balanced to a degree, and many games should actually still be considered as in beta, because many changes are still being made to them, regardless of the game's current state.

I also just remembered that this is the COMMUNITY hub...
Oh well, maybe people will agree with me, and if there's enough of them, my/our thoughts will be heard.

EDIT:
Even though the game may not seem like a traditional MOBA, the idea of Multiplayer Online Battle Arena is still there. Forge is still a game very similar to Archeblade.
It may be a team game.. but isn't that what a MOBA is? and in most Action games people decide not to help out teams, but only fend for themselves, which may be a problem with the community, but I think the Devs need to somehow push the players into working as a team, or get rid of that aspect all together.

So yeah, the MOBA thing. Team-comps matter a looottttt in this game it seems especially in 3v3s, and team play, is HUGGGEE in this as well as MOBAs. If anything, I'll say it (should) take aspects from MOBAs

The "stun-on-hit" I guess if fine, but in games like GunZ there is very little of it, and it offers a decently large window to escape, not to mention, it only happens with melee attacks in that.

I very much appreciate Geminosity's words on this topic
"Due to having no knockdown mechanics to cap how badly you can get juggled/stunned and in it's place a rather crazy juggle mechanic, if 2 or more people attack you, you're pretty much dead meat if you don't run away. They could really do with adding damage scaling during juggles to prevent mass gang ♥♥♥♥ on a single target being so efficient or even give people more combo-escape options if too many people pile on :P

Some might say you shouldn't get stuck in a xv1 situation but some characters have no choice if they get singled out (especially renoah :P ) or certain characters can shut down your ability to escape pretty well (valle and tiac's charge is great for slowing down a good number of non-jetpack escapists :3 )"

EDIT: Team needs auto balancing... i was put in a 4v1 situation today...

tl;dr
This may seem like an action game on the surface, yet the play style should be similar to a MOBA in the aspect where there should be specific teams that work better ie: DPS, Tank, Support, etc.
The stun-on-hit doesn't have a large enough window to break away against the high attack speed characters, and the high attack speed characters can deal a lottttt of damage in one combo if one knows how to play that character.
I feel that the 3v3 map should be increased to 5v5 because of how a lot of this seems to be getting ganged up on, and the map is quite large for only 6 players.
Last edited by alpacaW; Apr 22, 2013 @ 5:40pm
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Showing 1-4 of 4 comments
Aegis Apr 21, 2013 @ 3:39am 
Well, I understand some of your frustrations. However, when I think Action - I don't think of any of the titles you listed where as I do think of ArcheBlade. I don't particulary look at ArcheBlade as a MOBA although it is somewhat related to the genre.

As for the stuns - I have to say I actually like them, especially when it is an action/fighting title. WHen you are getting punshed in the face, how would you be able to react? I look at this mechanic as a somewhat realistic reaction. Albeit a slightly light reaction to some of the weaponary used (Holy Mace of Fiery Doom/Hammer of AoE Lightning Anti-Block Death).

I quite like the characters as they stand although do get frustrated with Sewon's lack of manuevability.

I think your best bet is to focus on learning blocks and timings to help solve your issue of being stunned out. Of course, if you are getting ganged then there is very little you can do about it. It is important to try and make sure you don't leave yourself in that position.

But personally I appreciate you care enough to suggest changes rather than rages about =]
Geminosity Apr 21, 2013 @ 5:54am 
I agree with loke, I don't really see this as being a MOBA. If anything it feels more like Archeblade would be suited to following the route taken by games like Gunz or Rakion.

In Rakion I could always be found in Golem or Team Deathmatch maps (Golem is a bit like what would happen if you took steam canal, made the map about 3 times bigger, increased the team sizes and gave it a second objective: kill the neutral golden golem in the middle to gain a power up that allows you to hurt the enemy team's golem. First to kill the enemy golem or wipe out the other team wins)

That said, in Rakion, focus fire wasn't as bad as it is on this game. Due to having no knockdown mechanics to cap how badly you can get juggled/stunned and in it's place a rather crazy juggle mechanic, if 2 or more people attack you, you're pretty much dead meat if you don't run away. They could really do with adding damage scaling during juggles to prevent mass gang ♥♥♥♥ on a single target being so efficient or even give people more combo-escape options if too many people pile on :P

Some might say you shouldn't get stuck in a xv1 situation but some characters have no choice if they get singled out (especially renoah :P ) or certain characters can shut down your ability to escape pretty well (valle and tiac's charge is great for slowing down a good number of non-jetpack escapists :3 )
Kreddi Apr 21, 2013 @ 8:37am 
Why would anyone think that hit-stun is a bad idea?
If there wasn't hitstuns everyone would just hit eachother all the time, and it would be a dps race.
And your complaint about certain characters only being able to heal and such, its a team game.
Sevon and valle's offensive capabilities aren't as great as others, but they have healing and more team oriented (what you would classify as a support)
Stillness Apr 21, 2013 @ 11:51am 
Hello Makise,

You'll find the pinned topic in the 'Character Balance' section of these forums. If you're on the main page, look on the right side of your browser/client and you'll see it says 'Sub Forums', underwhich will be a listing of the different, more specific, forums.

As others have already said before me, I don't feel this game is similiar enough to any of the games you mentioned (Save GunZ) to warrant any true critique-by-comparison. Beyond that, a lot of what you've mentioned is already present in the ArcheBlade metagame. Things like tank/DPS/Healer, initiators/rushers etc.

For hitstun you will often find people discussing how if you're caught by two people, you'll be juggled until you die. In more competitive matches, if you have two people attacking one person you're setting yourself up to die even faster than the person you're ganging up on. Elrath, ♥♥♥♥, Gaspar, Fire Renny and Ice Renny can all effectively deal massive damage in these situations, meaning if you want to try and commit two people to killing one person, you better know what you're doing.

If you still cannot find the pinned thread, here is a direct link to it: http://steamcommunity.com/app/207230/discussions/11/828935672382098872/
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Archeblade > Character Balance > Topic Details