Legend of Grimrock

Legend of Grimrock

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blumoose Mar 28, 2013 @ 1:26am
Like the Game, Hate the Magic System; Can it be modded?
I loved EotB and EotB2 (3 was ok). Never played DM. I like the puzzles in these kinds of game, leveling up a party, etc, etc. It's fun. I understand the lack of multiclassing, though I really enjoyed that in EotB, but I miss it. I'm also not entirely certain about how balanced the races are with each other. They seem a bit too good for one particular class at times.

That said, I really just hate the magic system. I loathe having to re-enter the runes every single time I cast a spell. It makes playing with more than one mage unbearably annoying for me, where I'd like to try out a party of mages. Anyone know if this can be fixed in a mod? I haven't seen any mod that does this, but I'd try my hand at it if it the modding system allowed for it.

Otherwise, maybe I'll just have to use auto-hotkey or something, but that's a pretty kludgey fix.
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DemonicSquid Mar 28, 2013 @ 2:14am 
Have to agree about the magic system. I played Dungeon Master and it's ilk as a kid and this is a refreshing 'reboot'. However, I don't remember the magic system being so clumsy. It would be great if there were bookmarks to recall a couiple of combinations rather than having to click them in each time. I'm finding more than one mage unmanageable and frustrating, especially playing on a macbook with a single button touchpad.
Dr.Disaster Mar 28, 2013 @ 5:28am 
LoG's magic system's 3x3 rune grid is rather similar to the one used in Dungeon Master which featured a 1x6 grid that had to be used up to 4 times to cast a spell. What can be modded in are new spells but that's it. The interface itself can not be changed and Almost Human has no intention to do so either.

These are quotes from Petri, one of the original designer:
We wanted to create an experience that tests the skills of the characters and also of the player. For example, the puzzles are designed so that the player is the one who solves them, not the characters. The intention of the combat and magic in LoG is to test player's skills, like reaction times, motoric coordination and tactical thinking, as well as characters skills (miss chance, damage inflicted etc.). There are many RPGs out there that focus only on tactical gameplay. For example, the old gold box games are prime examples of this. With LoG we aimed for a different kind of experience.
There's always room for improvements but changing the magic system to, for example, use hotkeys or a list of spells to click on, is not something I would like in a realtime dungeon crawler.
blumoose Mar 28, 2013 @ 7:16am 
Their application of that reasoning seems inconsistent. It isn't like they made Fighters and Thieves so difficult to play. If all combat was difficult that would be one thing. Making one class more difficult compard to others...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a game like this.

And let's not pretend they couldn't make the other classes use similar systems, especially when they have random special attacks. Instead they could have had something complex for executing any attack and have different sorts. There's no reason to single out magic. Seems to make having a large variety of magic far more difficult as well if you expect everything to be memorized (but that's neither here nor there since there are so few spells in the game).

But thanks for the info. I guess I'll setup crude solutions with auto-hotkey at some point if I want to use a mage. The system, for me, is more of a barrier to enjoyment than anything else.
psychodegu Apr 6, 2013 @ 5:00pm 
Really you don't need to cast spells non, stop. if you can disengage while you prep spells and then come in swinging and blast and then redisengae. Mages run out of magic really fast so the need to spam magic isn't there.
Last edited by psychodegu; Apr 6, 2013 @ 5:00pm
blumoose Apr 8, 2013 @ 7:49pm 
It isn't like you only have enough mana for a single spell. You can easily have enough mana for several spells or more. The magic interface is so cumbersome that it is hard to use in a timely fashion, however. The fact you advice to run away just so you can prep the spells again is indicative of the problem I'm talking about.
Dr.Disaster Apr 9, 2013 @ 12:35am 
Perhaps you only need more training. Make an all mages party. Starts slow but blasts everything later on.
This would work if you only had one character, but not in a party game. This is the only thing preventing me from playing both games. I like everything about it but I like magic in RPGs and this system kinda ruins the flow of the game for me. If they added an option to just select the spells instead once you find the scroll or have enough INT it would greatly improve the game for many. And as I say it should be an option so people who like it as it is can still enjoy it.
Stabbey Mar 6 @ 5:21pm 
Running a 4-mage run right now. It's only on Normal difficulty, but it hasn't been too bad. I'm midway through floor 8, and the only thing I've skipped is the Fighter's Challenge, and even then I'm planning to go back and do it again after I level up.

You definitely need a lot of room to backpedal as you're reloading your runes and being able to close doors so you have a safe space to rest is a must in most situations.

There's a reason why Insectoids are the race most suitable for Magery, it's because Insectoids have a passive where their hunger bar depletes very slowly. This is important because a 4-mage party needs to rest after just about every fight.
Trust me. LoG tries to follow the old schoold dungeon crawlers and magic was always a pain in those games.. Magic is very powerful in LoG., so they had to make it inconvenient so as to balance it out. One trick is that you can preselect your spells in advance. As in set the runes up. That way you can have four spells ready to go in rapid succession.

Beyond that, you need to simply get the timing for stun locking with melee attacks., or have at least two mages specialize in ice so you can freeze enemies. Then you can use this pattern.
Ice.
Other
Other
Ice
ready spells.

Repeat. At the very least the second freeze will give you time to get behind a door or something.
A key in playing mages in LoG is pushing both Willpower and Energy as fast and as much as you can right from character creation. Reasons are
a) the more Willpower your mage has the more Energy s/he gains with each level up and
b) the more Energy your mage has the faster s/he regenerates
and faster regenation means less need to rest.

Another key is to concentrate on one element per mage. The damage dealt goes up the more an element is build while spell cost stays the same. Having a mage with more then one element seems nice but building more then one element at once weakens the overall damage output.

Finally combat: mages have both close and long range spells so feeling the need for more room can be a misconception. Prepare and open a fight with long range, past that use spells matching the situation especialy when you got fire or lightning mages.
Basically the same for non mages. That's tehone flaw in the game is that it's very hard to properly explore possibilities.

My biggest complaint about magic is that there's not enough done with it. While some enemies are immune/resistant to some elements. There are no monsters that are more vulnerable to an element.

Uggardians resist/immune to fire but they don'tr take extra damage from cold.

If you're going to specialize in magic. Specialize in Air and Ice, as well as a few poibnts in spell casting.

Nothing is resistant to lightning per say, and only those raptors have any resistance to ice..

Fire is deecent but Uggardians start becoming pretty common after level 5 and Earth, is pretty much gimped since undead are resistant to poison and that poisoncloud is just as apt to screw you over as the monsters. COnversely. VEry few monsters use earth magic at later levels so the resistance is meaningless.

No monsters use ice beyond the guardians, and only whyverns and guardians use lightning.
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