SpeedRunners > General Discussions > Topic Details
Casper van Est  [developer] May 27, 2014 @ 10:33am
[Official] r25 feedback: Spikes will only stun (not kill) you & map changes
Hi all!

In the latest update, that has just gone live, we changed the behavior of spikes a bit, making it so that when you hit them, you'll be stunned for a few seconds, instead of dieing instantly.

We noticed in quite a few let's play videos that the extremely punishing nature of spikes didn't fit well with the rest of the game, especially for relatively new players that hadn't memorized all the maps yet. While playing some of the workshop levels ourselves, we experienced what this was like, and how frustrating these spikes can actually be when you're new to a map. No matter how experienced you might be, when you're running in the lead in a map that you haven't played before and run into a spike because you don't see it coming, and then instantly die is, well.. frustrating :)

So, we decided to balance that a little bit by stunning, instead of killing, you. The result we want to achieve is that when you run in to spikes while you're in the lead will not instantly knock you out anymore, but will (only) cost you the lead. However, if you're in last place and run into spikes, well then it's most likely game over, but that's only fair. If you're in second or third place, then it's going to be close ;)

Anyway, this change balances the game a bit in favor towards new players, so we're curious to hear what you, as a community of (probably) more experienced players think of this change.

We also made some changes in the layouts of silo, factory, themepark and powerplant and are curious to hear what you think of these as well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrI_QNip4L8

Full update list:

Spikes
  • no longer kill you
  • you bounce forward and get stunned for a second
  • no longer running in front gets you blindly killed

Map updates!

Theme Park
  • Redesigned the full right section (not many people were taking the far-right route)
  • Added a cannon-boost pad before the big jump and the carousel swing, it shoots you up
  • Added an upwards facing boost tunnel at the end of big jump, so people don't fall down
  • Redesigned section after the big jump

Factory
  • Tweaked bottom dual-tunnel section
  • Removed the big wall of death at right section, replaced with a more forgiving boost-tunnel that shoots you up

Night Club
(previous prototype level)
  • Now looks like a nightclub! Complete with a DJ and VIP lounge. Can you get into the VIP lounge?!
  • Bottom left section changed to include a boost-tunnel that opens if someone triggers a lever

Silo
(previous prototype level)
  • Now looks like a Silo! What do you think of the visuals?
  • Removed triggerable saws

Powerplant
  • Changed the right part of the map
  • Changed the missile for a boost-tunnel
  • Made the part after windmills more fluid

Last edited by Alex@tinyBuild; May 27, 2014 @ 11:32am
Showing 1-15 of 90 comments
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Edun May 27, 2014 @ 10:50am 
Quick test: Spike update seems good, in some cases it gives you a second chance if you are not close to drop out. Silo update seems ok too, not too much changes, pretty much same as it was (btw bots can't play this map through now, they get stuck on one of the boost on the route you modified). Also this now named disco map has gone over some changes that seems to be ok. I just liked that one boost you removed from down there, give it back!

Gotta play few rounds with pros to test it out further :)

In Factory I think you should've left some spikes in the wall you completely erased. Among pros it was quite challenging to go over it without losing speed too much.
Last edited by Edun; May 27, 2014 @ 10:58am
TehShrike May 27, 2014 @ 11:34am 
I'm very excited about this change!
Jimangi May 27, 2014 @ 11:35am 
I have to say, as someone who's played a lot of the game with friends, that I really like the harshness of falling into a lethal spike. I love the wall of death on Factory that can punish you for being cocky. I get why it would be daunting for new players but I know my friends and I would really like it if there were a toggleable option to put lethal spikes on again.
Knytt May 27, 2014 @ 11:43am 
It also seems that lasers and saw blades also only stun now.
Last edited by Knytt; May 27, 2014 @ 11:45am
DarthWound May 27, 2014 @ 12:30pm 
I prefer the lethal spikes, more hardcore, and it provides hilarious traps (when an opponent jumps over a spike, grab him and he dies). Please add an option to make them lethal.When SpeedRunners was released I bought a bunch of copies (6 or 8 I don't remember) because this game was extremely fun, please don't change it to a casual and boring one.
Shorty McDuff May 27, 2014 @ 12:46pm 
I must say I'm not fully in agrement on the spike change. We often play as four regular players and the spikes often guard the shortcuts so are a risk or die situation. I'd say when hosting give the option for them to be leathal or not.
Casper van Est  [developer] May 27, 2014 @ 1:09pm 
Note that the really awesome grapple-someone-into-spikes is still very powerful. It's just not a 100% guaranteed win anymore. In most cases it will be a more or less instant win, but in some cases it won't and can maybe even lead to a very rewarding comeback.
SpikeFoxyYoshi May 27, 2014 @ 1:16pm 
Thanks for the awesome new themes. can't wait to make new levels with that.

There's one wrong thing with the spikes. when you hit the spikes that's facing upside-down, like in the Silo, you get stuck. and if there's a long row of spikes, you lose speed and youre bouncing on one place... well if you press no keys.
Last edited by SpikeFoxyYoshi; May 27, 2014 @ 1:20pm
Bloodthirst420 May 27, 2014 @ 2:01pm 
Last edited by Bloodthirst420; May 27, 2014 @ 2:28pm
IT"S AN ARTICLE, DYLAN May 27, 2014 @ 2:39pm 
I love most all of the changes, especially the graphical updates. Everything except one thing...

Spikes.

I recognize for players who don't have maps plastered to their memory or players who try out custom maps for the first time will run into spikes, die, and be frustrated at the lack of foresight. It punishes the player for being ahead. Similarly, spikes had a function in previous updates of speedrunners; It's all very risk/reward. Several shortcuts are lined with spikes, and the player should be punished severely for actively trying to take a shortcut and failing.

I'm not sure if this is a possible solution, I don't know the technicals of it all, but would it be possible to still die to spikes from the top, but only be knocked backward if you run into the side of them? If not, another solution would be replacing non-risky spikes with another obstacle that would have a similar effect (Generic oil slick comes to mind; accomplishes the same goal while keeping spikes in the game)
Edun May 27, 2014 @ 2:42pm 
I've always been good looking in pictures, no exception this time.
d3north_4K May 27, 2014 @ 4:00pm 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264355977
The bots get stuck in the left tower on silo
Topping May 27, 2014 @ 4:59pm 
Some of the changes in this patch are great, but some of them however I feel are a bit unforgiving. Firstly I'll say however the two prototype levels look beautiful as the rest of the maps. Now onto the rest.

Spikes/Lasers stun

I understand the change of these too from being a definite win/lose place to a possibility of recovering, however, the stun time is too long so its pretty much an instant kill anyway. Maybe if you drop it down to half a second it may add the the counters you were hoping for. It would still affect the person in front if they hit spikes but it would be a bit more forgiving to the player behind.

Theme Park

I understand that no one was taking longer route but punishing the behind player for not getting to the switch first is basically giving the guy in front an instant win from the games I have played. I think maybe if you forced the first player to go the longer route but give him a bit of an easier ride up this might allow a bit more counter play for the player who is behind if they can go in the shorter (but harder) route up.

I strongly disagree with the adding of the cannon boost up especially with having the person in the lead taking the shorter route. not only are you rewarding them for getting to the bottom area first but also rewarding them at the top with a speed boost. Two speed rewards for being in front is not allowing for any counter play. Again I would suggest rewarding the front player if he is forced to take the longer route so he gets a cannon boost on top to go over the other route but not to shoot him over the big jump.

Nightclub

The adding of the boost here is smart it allows the behind player a chance to catch up I like this. Brilliant idea.

Silo

The only gripes I have hear is with the spike system at the top left of the map and the middle left where you jump through the spikes towards the boost. I feel like the Risk/Reward system here has been diminished by the nerfing of the spikes. In my experience with it no one is scared of trying these now because the punishment isnt that great which i feel takes away from these little shortcuts but this may just be me personally.

Powerplant

I love the speed boost near the laser in the middle of the map makes that part alot more intense with players daring to outrun the laser. However the taking out of the missile and putting in of the cannon booster I'm not too sure about. Although I agree that something needed to be changed there I feel that the missile should have been left in or moved somewhere else to harrass the player who goes up without the booster cannon.
moon.mid May 27, 2014 @ 7:38pm 
Stun spikes unfortunately break all the custom arena style maps.
d3north_4K May 27, 2014 @ 7:50pm 
Originally posted by moon.mid:
break all the custom arena style maps

bet they didnt think of that did they
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Date Posted: May 27, 2014 @ 10:33am
Posts: 91