Crusader Kings II > Algemene discussies > Details van topic
Belfalas 22 jun 2013 om 5:43nm
Someone can explain the alliance mechanic?
I'm having trouble to understand the alliance system. For example, last save I have 12 Allies, but just Call to Arms 2 of them. If I understand, isnt good idea marry my "duchy House" with a "king or better House"?

So, if you are Duch, search for Duch allies? If you are King, search for other Kings to make alliances? Thats the logic?
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American Bulldog JT 22 jun 2013 om 5:50nm 
Uhhh... well as i understand it you gain alliances through marrages. You can call on them to a war you started or are defending against.
Be careful with marrages as your children born outside your dynasty will have claims on your land
Laatst bewerkt door American Bulldog JT; 22 jun 2013 om 5:50nm
smelly tank 22 jun 2013 om 6:13nm 
War is not the only way to conquer another county, duchy, kingdom, or even an empire. Marriage can work wonders, especially combined with assassination.

So, alliances based on marriage or family relationships.

If you are a Duke, there are reasons to marry your children to Dukes or greater nobles. There are reasons to marry them to children of Counts.

However, even if you have a potential alliance, your ally may not want to join your war. Say, for instance, you are the King of Bohemia, and you are fighting some internal conflict against someone of House Salian other than the Holy Roman Emperor. Even if you have a marriage alliance with the Salians, the Holy Roman Emperor may decline to join your war.

It can get complicated, yes. I don't think there's any easily rule or expectation that we can give you.

Ultimately, don't expect any ally to help you when you need them to help.
jelf 22 jun 2013 om 7:11nm 
You'll be the ally of a landed lord(ie someone with at least a piece of land) as long as he/she is your relative/dynasty or his/her spouse is your close relative.

However whether they'll answer your call to arms depends on other factors. First they must like you more than your enemy. And then there's the distance factor and some others.
Langkard 22 jun 2013 om 10:25nm 
I've found the Alliances most helpful only when playing near to Mulsim factions you'll be wanting to conquer, such as playing one of the Spanish Kings in the 1066 game. Marrying your daughters to the neverending pool of HRE sons will gain you a useful ally for dealing with the Mulsim tendency to join together to oppose you. Spain is too far away in the early years for the Holy Roman Empire to mess with, but close enough that they can come to your aid quickly if you need them. Since you'll be fighting Muslims, they'll be much more likely to agree to help you.

In the Old Gods DLC time frame, alliances are much less useful. Others not of your religion simply won't marry your sons and daughters. They flat out refuse. You will never even get an alliance with a fellow pagan from a different pagan religion type, much less an alliance with a Christian or Muslim faction. Playing as a pagan ruler, you really only have the option of making an alliance with a fellow Norse or Romuva or Suomi, etc. This is very dangerous, because under gavelkind children from that alliance can get a claim on your lands. And since they're naturally already neighbors, they'll become a problem. You also get a huge penalty for attacking an ally, which makes an alliance with a neighbor even less useful, for when you want to expand at their expense.
Raiseo Hitsu 23 jun 2013 om 12:43vm 
Origineel geplaatst door smelly tank:
War is not the only way to conquer another county, duchy, kingdom, or even an empire. Marriage can work wonders, especially combined with assassination.
Please elaborate.
If I have a wife that has a claim on the father's land and assassinate the father, doesn't the land go to another son? Unless the princess was an only child... in that case the land goes to me? ("me" so to speak).
Laatst bewerkt door Raiseo Hitsu; 23 jun 2013 om 12:43vm
jelf 23 jun 2013 om 1:07vm 
Origineel geplaatst door Raiseo Hitsu:
Origineel geplaatst door smelly tank:
War is not the only way to conquer another county, duchy, kingdom, or even an empire. Marriage can work wonders, especially combined with assassination.
Please elaborate.
If I have a wife that has a claim on the father's land and assassinate the father, doesn't the land go to another son? Unless the princess was an only child... in that case the land goes to me? ("me" so to speak).

It depends if the claim is strong or weak. The princes or princesses will only get a claim on their father/mother's land if their father/mother has died. At this stage the sons and daughters who didn't get the primary title will have a claim on it. Depending on the succession law this claim can be strong or weak. For most succession laws the daughters will get weak claim that can be inherited by their children without the need to press it in a war(normally to inherit a weak claim it must be pressed in war).

If you want the land your wife has a weak claim on, what you have to do is to have a son with her and wait for your wife to die/kill her yourself. The claim will then pass on to your son and you can wage war with it.

After winning the war and installing your son on the throne, you can then kill your son to get the land as most of the times you are the heir of your son. Or you can play until your main character died and play as your son with both piece of lands(assuming your son is the heir to all your titles).
jelf 23 jun 2013 om 1:11vm 
If your wife gets a strong claim after her father/mother died, then you can wage a war in her name immediately. After winning the war she will be the ruling queen of said lands. You won't get a claim on her lands. Again the only way to get those lands is by having a child with her and let your child inherit the lands and kill your child to get the lands yourself.
ZuLie 23 jun 2013 om 2:46vm 
Remember that you can't call other people's vassals to war if you don't share the same liege or if you aren't both independent. So that's why independent rulers are usually the most effective allies since them you can actually call to war... Those which can't be called to war are marked with a red text in your allies listing. But I'm not 100% sure how this thing works through marriage, since blue flag in marriage options should mean that you'll always get an alliance from that marriage. But then again, I think my allies have even then been marked with red text in allies listing and I can't call them to war.
Raiseo Hitsu 23 jun 2013 om 3:15vm 
Thanks for the explanation all! I'm still learning it seems.
Btw, those are devious plots you guys brew, kill wife and then your own child to get a plot of land? Horribly evil xD
Micgoo 23 jun 2013 om 8:02vm 
They are indeed terrible plots, and costly as well. A better way is to plot the deaths of your brothers in law so your wife inherits. Be mindful if you choose this you should have sons born at your court so you can choose their education and marriges. That's still awful, but at least you're not risking labelled as a kinslayer. Also, you can press your wifes claim if the current ruler is female ie. your sister in law, or if the current ruler has a regent (Under 16 or incapable.)
Raiseo Hitsu 23 jun 2013 om 8:31vm 
Origineel geplaatst door Micgoo:
They are indeed terrible plots, and costly as well. A better way is to plot the deaths of your brothers in law so your wife inherits. Be mindful if you choose this you should have sons born at your court so you can choose their education and marriges. That's still awful, but at least you're not risking labelled as a kinslayer. Also, you can press your wifes claim if the current ruler is female ie. your sister in law, or if the current ruler has a regent (Under 16 or incapable.)
Indeed this seems a cleaner solution.
jelf 23 jun 2013 om 9:05vm 
Origineel geplaatst door Raiseo Hitsu:
Origineel geplaatst door Micgoo:
They are indeed terrible plots, and costly as well. A better way is to plot the deaths of your brothers in law so your wife inherits. Be mindful if you choose this you should have sons born at your court so you can choose their education and marriges. That's still awful, but at least you're not risking labelled as a kinslayer. Also, you can press your wifes claim if the current ruler is female ie. your sister in law, or if the current ruler has a regent (Under 16 or incapable.)
Indeed this seems a cleaner solution.

Sadly that cannot be done 90% of the times due to how succession works.

Here you can see my wife has a weak claim to the throne of France. However she is female and France's succession law is agnatic. That means no matter how many Kings of France I kill I can never press the claim for her and the throne will never pass to her.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3834/9115987755_8bddd83899_o.jpg

So I conceived a child with her. Since the title claimant(my wife) is not dead yet, my son has no claim to the throne of France.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/9118213274_f6b896d9be_o.jpg

Then my wife died in an accident, what a pity. The claim passed on to my son.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2856/9118215586_848d8b8cb4_o.jpg

Time to get France.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3776/9118217944_f37e3566b2_o.jpg
jelf 23 jun 2013 om 9:26vm 
Origineel geplaatst door Micgoo:
They are indeed terrible plots, and costly as well. A better way is to plot the deaths of your brothers in law so your wife inherits. Be mindful if you choose this you should have sons born at your court so you can choose their education and marriges. That's still awful, but at least you're not risking labelled as a kinslayer. Also, you can press your wifes claim if the current ruler is female ie. your sister in law, or if the current ruler has a regent (Under 16 or incapable.)

Your method only works if the succession law is agnatic-cognatic/ absolute cognatic and your wife is first in line to the throne(which requires the title holder to have no brothers, children and your wife being the eldest daughter or the only daughter with a son).

Even then when you wife has finally become the queen of an agnatic-cognatic/ absolute cognatic throne(which consists of less than 10% of all the major titles) after meeting all these requirements, you still have to conceive a child with her to make sure the title will pass on to your dynasty. Then you have to make sure that child is your heir so you can get both lands when your current character dies.
Otherwise what you get will be a brother with his own kingdom and a claim to your throne while you have none on his. And you can prepare for a succession war right after your current character died.
Laatst bewerkt door jelf; 23 jun 2013 om 9:28vm
You've GLOCK to be Kidding ME! 23 jun 2013 om 10:14vm 
Belfalas: your alliances will vary depending on where you start I always try and get a powerful ally if I am weak. If I playing the Byzantines I get allies I will find useful Georgia/Alania.
It is a risk and reward strategy allies can save your life but may later press claims on your lands.
Marrying higher ranking families gets you prestige and potential claims on other titles.
Allies of same religion or culture are more likely to be friendly and join your wars.

As someone correctly stated above you can only call in allies who are independent or a vassal of your liege. The game will list all possible allies in the "alliance" tab some of which can be quite strange especailly amongst Muslims with half-brothers brother-in-laws etc.
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