+ULFBERH+T Feb 24, 2013 @ 4:27am
Is the In-game Loyality System Very Broken?
A number problems I have with the loyality I think are quite illogical.
The war/fight system is great, but everything else is sh*t.
Yes, these are not the 'WTFs' I feel while playing the game, and by no mean it is a complete list. However, I am really curious if others people think/feel/experience the same as I?

1. Many countes who are feeling very possitive about me can/will still rise up and revoke regardless.
2. Giving a title to someone can change the person from hating you a little to hating 100%
3. NPCs can do anything regardless how they feel about you.
4. Also courtiers under a count who revokes will follow their leader(s) regardless how they feel about you.
5. When they are sent to jail. It would be bad for me to kill those traitors. If freely released, I only gain +10 points, and often it also causes them to hate me more.

There are many other problems
  • Can't take away all titles from a person. If I catch a traitors who has multiple titles. I can only take away his title one by one. (And you know he is going to do it again)
  • Banish traitors can cause other Vassels to hate me regardless they being traitors
  • King(s) can't order two countes to stop fighting each other.
  • The game also has one of the worst menu system.
  • People list and its filter often fail to list everything that fit. (somebody screws up the query/SQL statement in game?)
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BraveLunatic Feb 24, 2013 @ 4:42am 
1. It doesn't matter if they have positive opinion about you if they have an alliance with your enemy (and like them more than you). This usually happens if your vassals are from your own dynasty. They are automatically allied against you, and you can't ally yourself with your vassals. Religion and culture also take a big role.

2. Depends on what kind of title you are giving away. If you're giving away a Duchy title, but hold a county and/or a barony within that Duchy, they'll automatically get a "Desires Duchy of ___" or "Desires the Barony of ____" giving you a -75 or -25, respectively. And it stacks with each county and barony. Also applies to duchies and kingdoms.

3. This depends on the relations they have with other chars, which you can't view directly.

4. Only your relationship with your direct vassals matter, focus on them. Ignore your indirect vassals.

5. They already hate you for sending them to prison (-50). Don't release them, or if you release them, make sure they don't have titles anymore. Without titles, they're harmless. If you want the +10 without their minus, them spending a long time in prison helps. Or only release them at the start of your next character reign.
BraveLunatic Feb 24, 2013 @ 4:49am 
* Can't take away all titles from a person. If I catch a traitors who has multiple titles. I can only take away his title one by one. (And you know he is going to do it again)

Keep guys like these in prison. Let them rot there. Do not put into Obliette.

* Banish traitors can cause other Vassels to hate me regardless they being traitors

Use sparingly, and only when you really really want their lands. If possible, use only when you do not have any counts/dukes as vassals. Or when you're really old and almost dying.

* King(s) can't order two countes to stop fighting each other.

This is a game mechanic. If you don't want your vassals to fight each other, raise the crown authority to at least Medium Crown Authority.

* The game also has one of the worst menu system.

You're right. =)

* People list and its filter often fail to list everything that fit. (somebody screws up the query/SQL statement in game?)

I think it only matches the start of the names.
eXistenZ Feb 24, 2013 @ 5:10am 
The thing that is most broken is the faction system. Vassals with 100 opinion will still join them, and you have to use your spymaster to get them to leave. But you should mainly worry about your biggest vassals. as long as they are happy, you'll have little trouble

Prisoners are actually quite usefull. Releasing 2 when your heir takes over, and you get +20 opinion free. And if you have imprisoned a big vassal, just banish him, and give out his confiscated titles, and create new, happy vassals.
BraveLunatic Feb 24, 2013 @ 5:13am 
Yeah, I hate it when a +100 vassal joins a faction. And you don't, won't know why.
Arur Feb 24, 2013 @ 10:26am 
I'm going to quickly say I agree with what you have said and I feel like you listed most of the loyalty problems so I have nothing to add.
Devo Feb 24, 2013 @ 11:08pm 
I have no complaints with it, aside from people sometimes hating you more once you grant them a title, which is a side effect of the way the system works.
Nuddle Feb 24, 2013 @ 11:57pm 
about the 100's joing factions, its simply realistic, other factors than just relations go into the equation. If for example you were a count, with a claim on duchy, and you had 3 times the power of the current titleholder, you wouldn't hesitate a sec. if you on top of that, are an ambitious schemer, well then the result is pretty much given, despite you loving your liege ever so much. just goes to show that theres more to the game than a simple red or green number when interacting with others.

The other problems:
A courtier thats granted a title. theres a great big difference between having an army to back your desires than just your own vague charms. a newly created vassal can hate you for a billion reasons; you, as before mentioned, only giving him some of his title i.e a duchy but not all the counties under it, your crown authority, tax rate, aswell as the things i mentioned above, him being ambitious and so on. take these things into account when handing out titles.
again, if you in real life were given some sort of holding, but your liege was a craven ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ controlling all of your army, and making you pay a huge tax, then its natural to hate him, even if he gave you the title. in short, new vassals, as well as old ones, are presented with a whole range of factors that influence relations, that courtiers just dont have to deal with.

as for courtiers blindly following their liege, wouldn't you? i mean, he has the power to kill/imprison/banish not only you, but your whole family. IRL courtiers are renown for thier **** kissing tendencies tbh.

revoking 1 title per imprisonment. its a balancing issue, if you could just strip the most powerfull duke in your kingdom, of all his titles in one go, without some sort of penalty, juggling internal relations would be waaaay to easy, in my opinion at least. Besides, lets be honest, half the game is about internal disputes.
most of the time its most beneficial for you just to slowly whittle away their power over the decades.
BraveLunatic Mar 6, 2013 @ 11:26pm 
Well said, Nuddle.

In fact, for me the most exiting time in the game is when a new king replaces the old one due to death. The transition will test all the hard work that you've done while you were playing the old king, and how you prepare the heir to take over the realm.
Zenic100 Mar 12, 2013 @ 1:26pm 
Originally posted by BraveLunatic:
Well said, Nuddle.

In fact, for me the most exiting time in the game is when a new king replaces the old one due to death. The transition will test all the hard work that you've done while you were playing the old king, and how you prepare the heir to take over the realm.
The problem is that this gets a bit easy, I played as house Habsburg from 1066, and every person I played from the third person along had over 20 diplomacy, no vices and at least three virtues, and about half were geniuses or quick, so i never had a succession crisis, or even an internal war.
Sergeant Whiskeyjack Mar 12, 2013 @ 8:44pm 
The only reason that +100 Relations join the factions is due to the Spymaster mission "Recruit Supporters" (or whatever its called, that is wrong, but you get the point.), and the way to get them out is to simply use your spymaster. Its far more realistic to believe that something is being held over the said lords head than to believe that he is going to betray a man he loves more than his own wife.
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Date Posted: Feb 24, 2013 @ 4:27am
Posts: 10