panzerkw Feb 25 @ 9:42pm
I have an empire with 69 vassal duchies. Two duchies start a bid for indepedence. 121,000 adventurers join the rebels
Are you friggin kidding me?!
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panzerkw Feb 25 @ 9:45pm 
It just happened again, 6 more duchies have started a succession war, and they received 81,000 adventurers. So now I have over 200,000 rebels against my 63,000 retinues and levies. Ugh!
dm.harlin Feb 25 @ 9:47pm 
I think this is intended. The strength of the help that rebels receive is scaled to the power of your empire.
Nuddle Feb 25 @ 11:44pm 
What dm.harlin said, they work much like the decadence revolts, scaling with your power.. otherwise you would just roflstomp everything once you get a medium/large realm just like the old days..
Embrace the challenge!
Steve Saint James Feb 25 @ 11:50pm 
Paradox's AI is too stupid to actually pose a threat on it's own so they decided the AI should be allowed to cheat and get free soldiers. My advice is to spam mercenaries and call upon your allies if you can.
[KoA] Blue Knight™ Feb 26 @ 2:16am 
you guys know that it can also happen to you , not saying anything is wrong with what you said i lose alot of wars due to adventurers , but it isnt only the AI
Turkrawr Feb 26 @ 6:51am 
The numbers are never ever a problem for me. There are a few ways you can approach removing these large revolts. But the error is not with Paradox.

FIrst note the composition of these large scale armies. LIght infantry, archers, few light cavalry. Heavy ride them down like grass.

Raising your armies swiftly enough to answer.
-giving vassals new conquered lands across the map. Give the King of Scotland a county in Greece, and he can raise all his armies in Greece. Rinse and repeat for all new lands conquered. I can raise my entire 250k army anywhere I want.

Like any real rebellion of the time, you need to starve and wait them out a little. Try taking as many other holdings as possible to mitigate their Assault castle approach.

Pathing: You can get those 50k stacks to merge off by offering up small baits. Put an army of 5000 with an Organizer leading them around and around. (attrition is your friend)

FInally the combat:
THis should be self explanatory. Notice EVERY modifier to combat. Terrain is just one aspect. Rivers are but a tiny one. Defender, Holy warrior, Flanker, Patient. Raw martial skill is just one number and trivial in the grand scheme.
NEVER PUT A CRAVEN AS ANY OF YOUR 3 GENERALS. EVER.

I usually let the revolt take a few holdings while my bulk force is gathering. It kills off a few from starvation, and a few from storming the gate.
IF you expect to face off against one in a raw strength, you will lose. If you think Paradox has muffed the math on this. Then you are very wrong as well.
DesertFox1979 Feb 26 @ 8:50am 
@Turkrawr: i can understand you defending a game you like (i like it too) but just bashing every argument raised up against CKII is leading nowhere...
the numbers are odd sometimes - and for a reason: AI would not be a thread soon. you explain it yourself: you are using a faulty AI (which is running after one of your side-forces and sufffers attrition instead of forcing you to fight superior numbers) to overcome something which was implemented because of a lack of challenge offered by the AI...

dont get me wrong: there is nothing to complain about this kind of gameplay decision - sometimes you have to take some cuts to keep the game balanced!

it is hard to work out a challenging AI on a global scale - but on the other hand: a perfect AI will defeat every human player...so the approach by paradox to the problem is not questionable itself - maybe just the way they did it (by throwing really high numbers in the game on AIs side)
WillScy09 Feb 26 @ 10:06am 
if you're an emperor, just revoke their duchies as soon as they join the faction. hand it out to their heir or a vassal. Rinse and repeat as neccesary. It's almost impossible to lose control of a massive empire with retinues and high feudal taxes to pay for mercs.
panzerkw Feb 26 @ 6:45pm 
I decided to ignore the 121K rebellion, since in the end I'll only lose two duchies there that I can get back. The 81,000 will be tricky as these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s attacked right after I defeated a catholic crusade, and that was quite exhausting. But since its for my imperial title, I'll have to manage somehow
Turkrawr Feb 26 @ 7:51pm 
Originally posted by DesertFox1979:
@Turkrawr: i can understand you defending a game you like (i like it too) but just bashing every argument raised up against CKII is leading nowhere...
the numbers are odd sometimes - and for a reason: AI would not be a thread soon. you explain it yourself: you are using a faulty AI (which is running after one of your side-forces and sufffers attrition instead of forcing you to fight superior numbers) to overcome something which was implemented because of a lack of challenge offered by the AI...

dont get me wrong: there is nothing to complain about this kind of gameplay decision - sometimes you have to take some cuts to keep the game balanced!

it is hard to work out a challenging AI on a global scale - but on the other hand: a perfect AI will defeat every human player...so the approach by paradox to the problem is not questionable itself - maybe just the way they did it (by throwing really high numbers in the game on AIs side)

MOst who complain about the size of these rebellions arte those who just dont know how to defeat i9t.
I havent tried the decadence revolt yet, but my point above wasnt blindly defending the game, which I would do anyway ;)
One of the reasons I am confident and comfy fighting these rebellions is because I am setting up for a win in the Aztec invasion. The tools that I listed are really good tricks in order to defeat rebellions.

I could have just answered with "lawl nubs cant win", but instead I wrote out HOW I do it.
So under the current mechanics, each and every rebellion is winnable. People just dont understand the mechanics enough.
panzerkw Feb 27 @ 8:41am 
Just so I'm clear, I love the game. I've got over 500 hours in it. I was just incensed at how two lowly dukes were suddenly given twice the number of troops I had available.

Ultimately I lost both rebellions, but I started a faction of my own while I rebuilt my retinues, and while the new emperor was pulled by our ally Perm for some silly war against the mongols I launched my own and won. It'll take a few years to sort this mess out.
petri.piira Feb 27 @ 11:07am 
The insane amounts of troops those rebels get have prompted me to install kings to my empire as vassals... then they have to deal with their rebellious dukes - and if a king needs to be smoothed a bit, I can always give him a county somewhere outside of his de jure area, so he will desire to get the duchy from its de jure owner - another king. Let them fight and plot against each other, and against the factions they get from their vassals. Not my business.

Nowadays civil wars are too risky to allow them. Which is correct - but if one happens, the mechanic of conjuring insane amounts of troops out of thin air is immersion breaking.

There should be other, more believable ways, to make civil wars undesirable. Maybe the rebelling faction could incite your retinues to rebel too, or ask outside help in exchange to giving them some of your titles if they win, or maybe a civil war should increase the peasant and heretic rebellion chances to 50% everywhere, etc.
Turkrawr Feb 27 @ 8:57pm 
Originally posted by panzerkw:
Just so I'm clear, I love the game. I've got over 500 hours in it. I was just incensed at how two lowly dukes were suddenly given twice the number of troops I had available.

Ultimately I lost both rebellions, but I started a faction of my own while I rebuilt my retinues, and while the new emperor was pulled by our ally Perm for some silly war against the mongols I launched my own and won. It'll take a few years to sort this mess out.

Take a look at "historically."
Lets use Braveheart as an example(albeit inaccurate story).

William Wallace raises an army. The highlanders come down on their own in rows of hundreds and thousands (thanks Chibs from Sons of Anarchy for this line). They fight, they win their first few fights.
But feeding a large army that is disorganzied would be impossible. Starvation and desertion from starvation would start thinning your numbers.

My point is that these rebellions are somewhat historibally accurate in that mass amounts would flood to fight, but the momentum would eventually leave them into chaos
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Date Posted: Feb 25 @ 9:42pm
Posts: 13