Vassal merchant republics of a kingdom or empire-tier merchant republic?

[Bloodie]

In the current version of the game, they seem not to appear. The vassal doges are normal burghers, like the non-coastal doges, they are not patricians. The reason seems to be they would otherwise compete for the trade posts with you. The only exception is probably the Hansa, which can still be created by an event, if you control the republic of H.R.E. However, the Hansa leader seems not to have any Patrician vassals and, in fact, becomes a sixth candidate for your title! Does anyone have different experience?

See the image.

[Evil Crusader]

Well, that makes the HRE an highly desirable title for any republican game... Patricians are the best vassals ever: they don't bid for election, they're very loyal to you and their monies are a very good asset to have.

[satayagraha]

In one playthrough I saw the Byzantine Empire vassalize Venice. It became Republic of Venice in stead of Serene Republic of Venice, it's map colour changed and the ruling Doge was orthodox.

[Evil Crusader]

That's different, probably the Basileous took away their Kingdom title (whose republican equivalent is 'Serene Republic of X').

[Bloodie]

Originally posted by satayagraha:

In one playthrough I saw the Byzantine Empire vassalize Venice. It became Republic of Venice in stead of Serene Republic of Venice, it's map colour changed and the ruling Doge was orthodox.

Originally posted by Evil Crusader:

That's different, probably the Basileous took away their Kingdom title (whose republican equivalent is 'Serene Republic of X').

Right, that's a different story. If playing as a feudal lord, you cannot take the Serene Republic titular title, as it is only for republics. Therefore when I in an earlier game played as Basileus and conquered Venice, the kingdom title stayed with the former (Italian) doge who was otherwise landless. When I tried to usurp it, I think the title just disappeared and my new (Greek) vassal doges weren't able/inclined to recreate it for the rest of the game. (Perhaps the AI also needs Italian culture...)

[Tj1602]

Originally posted by Bloodie:

Right, that's a different story. If playing as a feudal lord, you cannot take the Serene Republic titular title, as it is only for republics. Therefore when I in an earlier game played as Basileus and conquered Venice, the kingdom title stayed with the former (Italian) doge who was otherwise landless. When I tried to usurp it, I think the title just disappeared and my new (Greek) vassal doges weren't able/inclined to recreate it for the rest of the game. (Perhaps the AI also needs Italian culture...)

In my Ironman Old Gods start as the the ERE, I had conquered Venice and gave one of my courtiers, with high stewardship, the city and Duchy of Venice. Years later I noticed that the current Doge had over a 1000 ducats and enough prestige to form the Serene Rpublic. But the Doge didn't, so I'm thinking maybe the Doge needs to be independant in order to form it.

[markdb92]

no the doge needs 2 duchies to form it just give him a titular duchie title.