Next step advice needed

[BadgerBravo]

Still a noob but i'm slowly getting the hang on the game.
Problem is, i've got to this stage a couple of playthroughs and then i get stuck a little.

I've total control of Ireland and most of Wales (England has one county!).
I'd like to invade Scotland next but I'm wondering what my next move should be.
1- Fabricate claims on counties - problem is, I can usurp a title/county but then there the treaty with the king (of Scotland) that makes this too slow to overtake country.
2- I've invited a prince of Scotland with a claim on the country to my court but I've no small holding to offer him. Shall I make him my vassal with a county and then press his claim? Then what? I'm having some problems foreseeing what issues this will cause me.
3-Marry a princess of scotland to my kin and kill all the other heirs. - Takes too long.

Seems I get a bit disallusioned at this stage in the game and it's frustrating not knowing what to do next. Can I get some advice please?

Loving the game otherwise.

Thanks in advance!

[GameofGames]

1. Fabricate the claim on scotland and wait the treaty out.
2. I think if you push his claim it would only make him the king of scotland and you will still have to take it over.
3. Probably the better route, it may take some time but it is always an option.
PS if you give the claimant land, he will take both scotland and the land you gave him when you push his claim.

[Exothermically Eclectic]

Originally posted by Tony:

1- Fabricate claims on counties - problem is, I can usurp a title/county but then there the treaty with the king (of Scotland) that makes this too slow to overtake country.

Doable, but rather a last resort; well, ok, second last resort, just before "convert to Heresy, Holy War or be Holy Warred!" If you're trying it, I suggest either pushing fabricated claims on duchies (rare), or more viably accumulating several fabricated county claims and pushing them all at once in one war, bypassing the truce timer (this can only be done with fabricated claims).

Originally posted by Tony:

2- I've invited a prince of Scotland with a claim on the country to my court but I've no small holding to offer him. Shall I make him my vassal with a county and then press his claim? Then what? I'm having some problems foreseeing what issues this will cause me.

As he would then be the King of Scotland and thus the same title tier as you, which means he cannot be a vassal, all this would achieve is the loss of a county. Right idea, though, you were just thinking too large-scale; try the invite+push claim game with duchies instead of kingdoms. Btw, if you weren't already aware, you can see all the claimants to a given title by opening up the title screen for that title and hitting the claimants button.

Originally posted by Tony:

3-Marry a princess of scotland to my kin and kill all the other heirs. - Takes too long.

You don't need to kill all the other heirs. Two options:
First, push her claim and then keep her on the seat of power until (laws permitting) she hands it down to her kid (who, if you've done it right, will be your heir/your heir's heir). Won't work if Scotland has Tanistry, unlikely to work if they have Elective, will be difficult to make work if one of the Kingdoms has Gavelkind and even harder if they both do.
Option two, wait for her to die (or "wait", but make sure not to do anything to her before she actually inherits a claim to pass on), and either push your new claim (if her kid was your heir and you are now playing as them) or push the claim of your relative. The latter won't actually put you in charge of the kingdom, but it will make diplomacy and marriages easier, and thus make it easier to get hold of it later (or to grab an alliance and go beat up England).
Note, do not do that last one if the not-you family member you'd be installing would have (or later get) a claim on your title, unless you want to go the meta-gaming option of purposefully losing your grip on your title and switching over to the other branch of the family.

[Fredericks of Cursewood]

If you are trying to form Britannia, England really has to be your number #1 priority. Instead of going after Kingdoms and fabricating claims on single counties, you should be concentrating on petty kingdoms/duchies. If you can pull a couple from England and one from Scotland, then you are a lot closer to forming Britannia.

[BadgerBravo]

Can't get my head around the marriage thing...
Here's a couple of examples;

Say I marry my son/grandson to the princess of Scotland and he becomes King. How does this effect my empire so to speak? Do I have an ally or control over Scotland?
What if I do the same thing but marry my nephew to the princess. Would a slightly distant member of my dynasty effect things differently?

I sometimes see those examples where people have 3/4 of the map under their control and all one colour. I presume they're emperors with kings of their bloodline below them? Is that right?

Signed,

Confused. :)

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by Tony:

Can't get my head around the marriage thing...
Here's a couple of examples;

Say I marry my son/grandson to the princess of Scotland and he becomes King. How does this effect my empire so to speak? Do I have an ally or control over Scotland?
What if I do the same thing but marry my nephew to the princess. Would a slightly distant member of my dynasty effect things differently?

I sometimes see those examples where people have 3/4 of the map under their control and all one colour. I presume they're emperors with kings of their bloodline below them? Is that right?

Signed,

Confused. :)

If your heir married a princess of Scotland and she becomes queen, your heir would become "king" of Scotland and it would be your ally. It would not become part of your realm until the heir of your heir both die, at which point their child would inherit Ireland, Scotland and Wales (aasuming the succession laws were the same for all three titles).

Unfortunately, Scotland can also have some goofy inheritance laws depending on your start date that could monkey wrench the whole plan. It may have tanistry succession, which is similar to elective gavelkind. This can be a good thing, since as long as you can get your dynasty as part of the royal Scottish mix you may qualify at some point to inherit. It's happened to me. One game I was playing as a king of England married to a Scot princess, and my heir ended up as king of Scotland due to tanistry succession.

Also, you mentioned you were able to invite a Scot prince to your court. This presents an interesting opportunity. If he is available and you have a daughter of the right age, marry or betroth her matrilinially to the prince. He's your courtier so he can't refuse. At the very least the child they have will be of your dynasty and have a claim on the kingdom.

[Jerubius]

One tactic is to just get your dynasty on as many titles as possible, and then switch to seniority succession. The eldest member of your dynasty will inherit all your titles, and then make sure you switch any titles he had to seniority. Once everything has been unified, switch them back to something like primogeniture. Get your kids to marry other influential dynasties and then press their kids' claims to take the throne and you don't need to care about landing them or equal level titles because seniority should merge them once the kid gets old enough.

Using this tactic, it could be helpful to also look for ways to get the depressed trait, so you can commit suicide whenever an heir with lots lof land stands to inherit, just so you don't need to worry as much about them dying unexpectedly, and needing to wait another 40 years before the new holder is old enough to stand a decent chance at inheriting. Also, if you pressed their claims to put them on the throne, forming an alliance should be easy enough and help you protect their title in the case someone else presses a claim on it or some rebellion happens.

[BadgerBravo]

Wow. Thanks for all the advice guys!

So basically, my daughters are pretty much useless (unless the country law allows them to inherit), or I marry them matrilineally and theur children are my lineage. (I also know about using them to improve opinion by shipping them off to a guardian).

[gregoryk64]

Originally posted by Tony:

Wow. Thanks for all the advice guys!

So basically, my daughters are pretty much useless (unless the country law allows them to inherit), or I marry them matrilineally and theur children are my lineage. (I also know about using them to improve opinion by shipping them off to a guardian).

Daughters are also very good for forming non-agression pacts and alliances through marriage. Extremely useful for controlling troublesome vassals. Have a powerful vassal duke who is constantly starting factions? Marry one of his sons to one of your (non-inheriting) daughters. Instant NAP, no more faction action.