Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

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Great_OLAF3 May 22, 2017 @ 11:34pm
Counselors only objecting to duchies
I've noticed that when granting land, counselors will object to granting duchies on the basis of them being unlanded, but not counties, when they cannot be directly granted the duchies they want. Is there some way around this, or at least an explanation of the reasoning.
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Zsrai May 23, 2017 @ 6:14am 
You can't give unlanded characters duchies (or higher) without also giving them a county. They have to be landed in the first place to have a title, basically. Is that what you're talking about?
gregoryk64 May 23, 2017 @ 7:40am 
First off, I would suggest you change your laws so that the council has no say in the granting or revocation of titles or imprisonment. Give them votes on banishment, execution and war declaration and as long as you treat them well you should have very little problem with factions. Then the only time you will have to work around to grant titles with council approval is if you are under a regency.

If your councillors are unlanded, why would you not grant them titles? It increases their opinion of you, making it easier to get things done. Also, councillors who have war declaration powers cannot join factions. So consider them for counties and duchies first.

Even if your councillors are landed, there are going to be situations where they object to you granting a title. If the council is split on the issue, look at the "nay" votes and figure out what you can do to change it to a "yay". Everyone is jockeying for power, so your councillors are looking for title grants that benefit them. As I mentioned before, if they are unlanded, consider them first. If they are landed, consider granting the title to a non-inheriting member of their dynasty. That will usually change the vote. If the duchy is de jure to to territory the councillor controls, consider giving it to them. If the councillor is just discontent and hates you, consider replacing them with someone more agreeable even if that character is a couple points lower in the desired skill.

If you are dealing with a regency, you might be stuck for a while. This is especially true in cases where a child inherits the throne and you have the two year period of discontent on succession.
Great_OLAF3 May 23, 2017 @ 1:52pm 
I think part of the problem was that I was under 16, but all of the counselors who were voting against were unlanded, I had died and passed my title to my great grandson, who was already landed and ended up over demesne limit, so I gave the county he'd had to an unlanded uncle, no objections from the council. Then I tried to give him the duchy and all the unlanded members were against it with their stated justification being, "I am unlanded, I should get this title." A duchy, when I had no counties or baronies to give out. I think they just want to make it impossible for a child to stabilise a realm.
gregoryk64 May 23, 2017 @ 2:49pm 
Originally posted by will127th:
I think part of the problem was that I was under 16, but all of the counselors who were voting against were unlanded, I had died and passed my title to my great grandson, who was already landed and ended up over demesne limit, so I gave the county he'd had to an unlanded uncle, no objections from the council. Then I tried to give him the duchy and all the unlanded members were against it with their stated justification being, "I am unlanded, I should get this title." A duchy, when I had no counties or baronies to give out. I think they just want to make it impossible for a child to stabilise a realm.
It's not impossible for a child ruler under regency to stabilize a realm if you are over demesne limit. You just have to face the fact that you are kind of at the mercy of the council and you may not be able to give out those titles the way you want to. Councillors, just like vassals and every other character in this game, are going to look out for their own interests first. That means

a) if they are unlanded, they want a title
b) if they have a title, they will want another for themselves or for members of their dynasty
c) they will not usually want you giving titles to yur own dynsaty members
d) if they hate you, they won't agree to anything you want unless it benefits them

So in this situation, you've already made your uncle a count. My advice you would be to boot one of the unlanded councillors off the council and replace him with your uncle. Then try again to grant him the duchy. You've turned one "no" vote into a "yes", which may be enough to sway the vote in your favor. Yes, the council member you've fired will hate you but so what? He's unlanded - he can't do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

In hindsight, it would have been better to grant that extra county to one of your council members and then grant them the duchy. But since you already gave it to your uncle and you have no other titles to grant, it's not an option.

Personally, I think having unlanded council members is a bad idea after the council is empowered unless the unlanded character has absolute rockstar skills for Chancellor, Marshal, or Spymaster, or if the character is a Jew with decent stats. The latter will give you occasional tech bonuses.

Or, if the child only has a couple years before reaching adulthood and you are only one duchy or one or two holdings over your limit, you may just want to sit on them and take the opinion penalty until he comes of age and you can do what you want. Counter the opinion malus with annual feasting, gifts, and generally not starting wars or doing things to piss your vassals off until age 16.
Last edited by gregoryk64; May 23, 2017 @ 2:53pm
Great_OLAF3 May 23, 2017 @ 3:45pm 
When almost all your landed vassals have single digits in all skills, and you have unlanded people with 20+ skills it seems kind of stupid to pass them over, except in nonessential council positions. It worked out in the end, I managed to survive to adulthood, they didn't object then, I even managed to pass the external realm inheritance illegality, and the first level of women's rights laws.
gregoryk64 May 23, 2017 @ 4:37pm 
Originally posted by will127th:
When almost all your landed vassals have single digits in all skills, and you have unlanded people with 20+ skills it seems kind of stupid to pass them over, except in nonessential council positions. It worked out in the end, I managed to survive to adulthood, they didn't object then, I even managed to pass the external realm inheritance illegality, and the first level of women's rights laws.
I completely agree that if your vassals are morons and you have some rockstar courtiers then by all means make those courtiers your councilors. I said as much in my last post. Then, when you have extra titles to grant, those councillors should be at the top of the list to get them. It will improve their opinion of you making them easier to deal with, chances are good that they will pass some of those good stats to their heirs so you eventually have a better quality of vassal to put on the council in future generations, and best of all they can't join factions as long as you grant war declaration power to the council.
kaiyl_kariashi May 23, 2017 @ 10:46pm 
If i have rock-star courtiers, I soon have rock-star vassals. Tyranny is just a number.
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Date Posted: May 22, 2017 @ 11:34pm
Posts: 7