Geneforge 5

Geneforge 5

Geneforge 5 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Chronie May 22, 2013 @ 2:56am
Hidden Geneforge Mechanics I hope this helps
Geneforge Mechanics
This is an overveiw on the hidden mechanics of the game series not mentioned in the manual. When using this guide please take into account the first couple of notes on skills over ten and Ability multiplier calculations for attacks.

High level skills 10 and above
Unlike most other Geneforge games increases are linear for both hit and damage.
In previous games some effects would decrease any percentage bonus chance for skills over 10 by half and a third for any over 20.

Ability multipliers calculations
Well you might think a multiplier should effect the end resualt geneforge games seem to do this differently. The multiplier seems to be done on the maximum dice roll for the attack meaning you will only see the upgrade on certain levels of the skill multiplier.
Example (spellcraft multiplies all magic effects)
Firebolt *d4 (random 1 to 4 damage)
Spellcraft (10% bonus per rank)
1 no change
2 d5 (d(4*120%)=d4.8 rounded =d5
3 d5 (d(4*130%)=d5.2 rounded =d5
4 d6 (d(4*140%)=d5.6 rounded =d6
5 d6 (d(4*150%)=d6 rounded =d6
6 d6 (d(4*160%)=d6.4 rounded =d6
7 d7 (d(4*170%)=d6.8 rounded =d7
8 d7 (d(4*180%)=d7.2 rounded =d7
9 d8 (d(4*190%)=d7.6 rounded =d8
10 d8 (d(4*200%)=d8 rounded =d8
*this is only an example exact firebolt damage varies between games.

Multiplier skills
Melee Weapon
-(+10%) bonus on damage per level no other effects found
-Only works in Geneforge 3 to 5
Ranged Weapon
-10% per level on damage
-Wand and gem effects as if spellcraft for casted spells
-Only works in Geneforge 3 to 5
-(+10%) bonus damage per level
-(+10%) bonus duration per level
-(+10%) bonus effect ranks given per level
Examples of effect bonus
-Unlock (Tool ranks saved)
-Bless (hit chance and damage bonus)
-Augmentation/Essence infusion (effective endurance given)
-Essence shield (dodge chance given)
-and more

Spellcraft the ultimate skill?
Spellcraft will not enhance all spells in fact it has no noticable effect on the daze or strong daze spells when it comes to multipling. The magic within the game is also limited to spell power which regenerates at a set rate and your essence supplies which doesn't regenerate at all. When using powerful magic it is easy to use it all up in a few shots even with insanely high intelligence. Here is what you can expect from the multipliers:
Battle Magic
-More damage in all spells and not much else
Mental Magic
-Longer duration on non daze spells
-Stronger Wrack
Blessing Magic
Warblessing - greater to hit, damage bonus and duration
Protection - Longer duration
Essence Shield - greater dodge chance
Haste -Longer duration
Spine shield - better damage dealt when hit
Essence armor - more effective endurance and Dodge chance
Steel skin - No apparent change?
Elemental aura -Fire, cold and energy resistance bonus?
Healing Craft
Healing and effect removal multiplied.
Augmentation(Essence infusion) - More effective endurance

Please note that some of the bonuses are said to be bugged and may change slightly between games

Cannister usage
Cannister usage will change the ending of every geneforge game and the general rule is use 6 or less for the unaltered ending. When you play using the cannisters the game will preform a check against your cannisters used to determine whether you control your urge to kill and if you have used too many combat will automatically start. Within the series 2 games can be played without effecting anything but the ending. The first game has no apparent negative to using cannisters requiring them for new skills as no training is available. The fifth and last one uses your leadership skill in order to counteract the urge to kill but exactly how I am unsure. Should you wish to use all the cannisters you find the skill of leadership in Geneforge 2 to 4 will have a much less uses available.
Note: cannisters can reduce the amount of cash you need to spend on skills, give more powerful creations available or give small bonuses to your abilities

Merchant prices
The prices for the merchants in the first 2 games will raise their prices as they run out of money. This is in theory reversable but the costs required are not worth it. While this is possible for item merchants the trainers prices can only be changed via quests or faction supported.

Lucky Character
With Geneforge games luck doesn't state what exactly it does but here is a short list of the benefits you could expect. Please keep in mind initiative is only added every few levels exactly how often is unknown. I personally doubt this is everything and believe it also can effect damage dealt and other effects as well but it is too difficult to verify.
-Hit chance
-dodge chance
-item drop checks (coin is bugged in some games and disappears)
-all non physical resisitances mental, acid, poison and stun also physical damage resistances in some geneforge games 1 to 3 it would appear
Note: it is not recomended that you have a base of more than 4 or 6 on your character

Creation Statistics and what they do
Strength - 5% to hit and +1 damage strength
Dexterity - 5% evasion and +1 initiative
Intelligence - 5%mental effect resistance and set amount of spell energy per level
Endurance - Health and small armor bonus (too small to accurately measure)

Creations level requirements
The creation requirement for your skills is 1 for the first 2 teirs and rises by 1 after then. When making an enhanced version you need +2 on top of that. This makes it possible for any character with skill increasing items to get a weak creation army. Please note that these figures can and do vary by +1 for certain creations in some games but this should provide you with a general idea of what you need for creations in each game.
Teir 1 = 1 Skill
Teir 2 = 1 Skill
Teir 3 = 2 Skill
Teir 4 = 3 Skill
Teir 5 = 4 Skill
Improved versions +2 skill required

Creations Special attack damage (ranged unless otherwise stated)
Fyora - Fire bolt ranged attack
Cryoa - Ice spray ranged attack
Artila - Searer (for all versions)
Roamer - Searer
Pyroroamer - Energy explosion
Clawbug - poison melee damage bonus
Vlish - Energy bolt no equilivent spell and poison melee attack
Terror vlish - Fear spell but low chance of working (will not work on some versions) and poison melee attack
Drayk - Fire bolt empowered
Cryodrayk - Ice spray empowered
Kyshaak - Lightning aura (for all versions)
Wingbolt - Death (all versions)
Drakon - Disruption* damage hitting 3 targets in geneforge 2 and 3
Drakon - Extremely powerful firebolt in geneforge 4 and 5
Ur - Drakon - Disruption* damage attack hitting 7 targets in geneforge 2 and 3
Ur - Drakon - extremely powerful firebolt in geneforge 4 and 5
War thrall - Physical ranged attack uncertain whether javelin or baton damage dice used
Charged thrall - Same as the normal version as far as I can tell
Gazer - Death ranged attack and fear melee attack
Eyebeast - Aura of flames ranged attack and fear melee attack
*Disruption damage has no damage reductions

Creations Power notes
Creations have base skills which enhance their attacks giving them multipliers or higher base damage which are higher for every teir of creations. With the benefits to base skills comes a penalty to hostile mind effect resistance meaning they will go rogue or run away more easily. When considering spending extra essence on high level creations for more base statistics keep in mind the percentage benefits above decrease with effectiveness every 10 ranks. This means that you will not be able to guarantee the control of the most powerful creations and risk them killing you or running should they get hurt.
When making your creation army keep in mind
- levels on creations are mainly for spell energy and health other benefits are minimal
- high shaping skill is almost useless for the increase to base level
- Magic can be used to boost health, evasion and other stats cheaper then raising base stats
- low level creations need a bonus to their stats by spending extra essence or having more skill
- Cheap battle creations make excellent bodyguards for the main character as they generally have the most health and natural armor
- Most Fire creations are resistant to fire or ice and have a good ranged attack
- All Magic creations are highly resistant to energy attacks from geneforge 3 to 5
- Absorbing mid to high teir creations for essence has no big penalty
- When you reach near the end of the game you want 3rd teir or better creations.
- You will need to use mind shield aura to keep reasonable control over the toughest creations
- Grab shaping up to +4 early on or wait until you need it for a good creation. There is no need for more than 6 in the game, in fact your don't need to raise it during the whole game for any character in any one of the series. Your character using items or other benefits can get at least +3 in shaping skills
- Some creations can effectively cast spells without using up essence every shot or needing magical skills

Recomended Creations
Thahd - can take a hit even on nightmare without dying for a lot of the game
Artila - Shoots searer for those to lazy to cast themself but easily killed
Artila Plated/Searing - like the normal one but higher level
Cryoa - Decent all rounder with icy spray ranged attack but a bit expensive
Vlish - Cheap all rounder with energy attack
Terror Vlish - For those that cannot let the outdated vlish go
Battle Alpha - Melee tank perfect bodyguard for cost good till endgame
Battle Beta - Stronger battle alpha but may be a bit expensive (has extra armor too)
Drayk - Good all rounder until near endgame can be lacking at the end
Cyrodrayk - Stronger Drayk expensive but more effective at ranged attacking
Glaahk - Super stun melee attack use 3 to paralyze a tough foe
Ur-Glaahk - Super stun tank can easily hold back the enermy and take a few good hits
WingBolt - Death spell but limited shots due to recharge rate recomend absorb when out of ammo
Charged wingbolt - absorb when out of ammo before it dies but stronger death spell
Rottghorth - Zombie that deals high acid damage but dies quickly from non physical attacks
Drakon - Strong all rounder but expensive get no more than 2

Not Recomended Creations
Fyora - Weak attack and cannot take much of a hit but cheap
Thahd shade/charged - too slow at killing for essence/too expensive or weak to use much
Roamer - Vlish is better nuff said
Pyroroamer - only used as a suicide scout so you can leave safely and quickly
Clawbug - Thahds are better value for essence but this is still a viable creation
Plated Clawbug - lower hit chance for +2AP not worth the cost
Kyshaak - Low hit chance and is very expensive while still effective
Charged Kyshaak - Limited life little point in making it for a couple encounters due to cost
Rotzerhedron- Cost is too high for very little improvement
Ur-Drakon - Only available at endgame point just stronger and more costly
Gazer - Recharge time too long otherwise it is a good wingbolt/tank
Eyebeast - Only available at endgame point casts the most powerful battle magic spell but suffers from a very long recharge time
WarThrall - A strong battle beta with a weak ranged attack
Charged Thrall - A doomed tank... no thanks and it is only availble around endgame too
Last edited by Chronie; Apr 3, 2015 @ 7:20pm
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
udlp Aug 2, 2013 @ 2:37pm 
You mispelled 'Thahd' under reccomended creations.
Chronie Aug 2, 2013 @ 6:56pm 
Fixed it now spellcheck doesn't work with weird names like that anyway. Was that the only problem? I am sure I didn't find all the modifiers to effects from spells even if most of them are listed. :P
Cudgel Aug 21, 2013 @ 11:37pm 
You are a credit to the community.
flagyl2 Sep 21, 2013 @ 6:20am 
Thank you for this in-depth post. Greatly appreciated.
slimpickens Mar 3, 2014 @ 8:28am 
Strong work, thanks. This helped.
BeatYourHeadIn Jun 10, 2014 @ 4:20am 
Originally posted by RLUMa:
You mispelled 'Thahd' under reccomended creations.

not normally a troll but i can't leave this one alone he he he: you misspelled "misspelled" and "recommended" so there!!! :P
Last edited by BeatYourHeadIn; Jun 10, 2014 @ 4:21am
WhySoSad Jul 12, 2014 @ 11:08pm 
Have to disagree on some recommendations:

the upgraded rothgroths have 12 AP which lets them get 2 hits every round even with some movement, and lets them chase down dangerous foes; particularly ranged foes.

war trall is arguably the tankiest creation in the game due to its myriad of resistances, and does very reasonable physical damage. a ranged physical attack with a mountain of health is OP.

Wingbolts are of limited use late game as most mobs have resistance to it; gazers fare better in that regard.

I'm not a big fan of plated clawbugs but they do have the magical 10 AP number, which lets them hit twice if the opponent is very near or right next to them, which means they inflict a little more damage than the normal clawbugs.

Otherwise a very good guide and well done!
Last edited by WhySoSad; Jul 12, 2014 @ 11:09pm
Chronie Jul 13, 2014 @ 12:13am 
The recomendations were based off my own experiance play the game on torment difficulty. When you are looking at fighting you have 2 options major options defensive to survive long fights without losses or offensive to reduce the ability of your enermy to deal damage. Since I need to kill quickly when taking double damage I will choose numbers over a few tanky creations.

The Rotzerhedron or upgraded Rottghorth is extremely nasty but takes a long time to get, needs canisters used in order to get and shares the same weakness to elemental damage or spell effects. Despite those weaknesses which cause them to die just as fast as the normal ones and the massive cost they can be very nasty like you said.

There is very little penalty to having more creations and generally it is more essence efficient to have 2 or 3 weaker versions than a few big guys. Plated clawbugs have something like a -20% hit chance which means they aren't effective long in the game and aren't essence efficient beacause they cost a fair bit more. The wingbolts are used on an as needed basis and absorbed frequently so I save energy on my main character so they can use more magic

Thoughout the game I have completed at least 1 area before needing the restock essence at a town on torment. The focus on my creation teams is getting the most out of my essence pool rather than getting completely badass creations like the war thrall so I admit I am a bit biased against specialised creations that could be effectively replaced by cheaper versions. This tactic also helps a lot with healing if I manage to spread the damage among party memebers.
Last edited by Chronie; Jul 30, 2014 @ 4:21am
solomonhume Apr 3, 2015 @ 1:47pm 
I have to say the OP is error ridden.
for "High level skills 10 and above", it is true for Geneforge 1, for some skills (but not damaging ones) for GF2 to GF4, and simply wrong for GF5. Skill improves linearly in GF5.

For spellcraft, it improves all spell by 1 level, not by percentage.
Chronie Apr 3, 2015 @ 7:08pm 
Originally posted by author:
simply wrong for GF5. Skill improves linearly in GF5

You obviously have not tested the spellcraft or the other % increases it does work

Put 5 points into spellcraft at the start and compare this to putting 5 points into battle magic and you will get much different average damages. This is true for other spells but it is not apparent for every point spent thanks to rounding and seems to modify the maximum effect. Spells act very differently and you might not always be able to see the effect without a lot of testing. I have never completed the complete list of effects because of this. Should you find any bugs please list them so others can verify them.

The hit chance for the skill will be corrected thanks for spotting that been years since I have played it. I was not missing at all by the time I had gotten that high with a skill so assumed that it was the same as previous versions as the tests I had done matched previous games.
soraroxasxion Oct 4, 2015 @ 9:52pm 
Also in GF5 for sure if you have your creatures stand by an essence pool the essence you have to use to upkeep them decresses by one so a cryoa with 2 int will only cost 29 to keep but you still need the 30 to create it
HALTBLAZER22 Jan 13, 2017 @ 7:59pm 
I know this is WAY to little to late,but could you make this a guide? It would be extremely helpful.Especially for steam users because the only guide that I can see is a walkthrough.
Chronie Jan 15, 2017 @ 3:54pm 
Originally posted by HALTBLAZER22:
I know this is WAY to little to late,but could you make this a guide? It would be extremely helpful.Especially for steam users because the only guide that I can see is a walkthrough.
Done thanks forgot to put it into a proper guide.
HALTBLAZER22 Jan 15, 2017 @ 6:45pm 
I should be the one thanking you man.This game series is my favorite of all time and it's nice to see people actually still care about it.
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Geneforge 5 > General Discussions > Topic Details