Cave Story+

Cave Story+

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Cave Story+ > General Discussions > Topic Details
HeelTaker Feb 8, 2014 @ 5:47am
Okay what the ♥♥♥♥ am I missing here?!
Let me say first up this is absolutely not a troll thread, I am genuinely baffled that people tout this game so highly when it has such unbelievably glaring issues.

So my experience so far has been thoroughly enjoying it for the vast majority, with a few frustrations here and there but nothing too bad and quite fun most of the time.

But, oh is there ever a but! Now I have hit a sticking point so bad that I am questioning mine and everyone else's opinion of a game with this issue specifically, one that is so mind bogglingly stupid and has almost completely ruined this game for me.

The save points before boss battles.

----------------------MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD----------------------------

I am in Labyrinth W at the save point before the giant four track tank machine thingo boss that shoots a stupid amount of bullets. Now that save point is not right before the boss, not even close. This is what has almost completely ruined this game for me. Not the actual boss fight that I can't beat for the life of me, but the lengthy section before I can even FIGHT THE ♥♥♥♥ING BOSS THAT I HAVE TO DO EVERY GOD DAMN MOTHER ♥♥♥♥ING TIME. I am not exagerrating (rather it's a conservative estimate) that I have done this section OVER A HUNDRED TIMES at this point.

This is no cake walk either as I am playing on hard and every enemy on my way to the boss is a one hit death so I would say I only get afforded the luxury of trying to beat the boss MAYBE 10% of those tries.

That is 90% of my time playing this game banging my head up against the wall killing/getting by the same ♥♥♥♥in monsters that I have done over a hundred times now.

Does this sound fun? Does it sound like a flaw that can be easily overlooked? Does it seem like it should be worth a mention when claiming it is "the best game you have played in the last 10 years" or "the best indie game of all time" or any of the crap that the guys who worship this game spout?

The fact that I have nearly broken my controller due to sheer frustration at not the gameplay or the difficulty thereof, but the fact that I have done this same section so many sickening times makes me really feel genuine hatred for the game and the only reason I keep playing is some sick need to not let the game defeat me...

Surely I can't be the only one that considers this one flaw game breaking in the scenario I am in right now...

Can I?
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MasterLuigi452 Feb 8, 2014 @ 11:58am 
The real question is...
Why are you playing hard as your first playthrough?
You are suppose to play on Easy/Medium as first time play.
Hard is for people who are veterans of Cave Story.
HeelTaker Feb 8, 2014 @ 6:46pm 
What you have just done is exactly what I am talking about. Why on earth does the cardinal sin of games keep getting swept under the rug by everyone?

I mean a free game fair enough whatever but it is inexcusable for a full Steam release.

Why am I the only one that seems to think this is a problem?

As far as your question goes, I always try the hardest level of every game by default as I enjoy the challenge, again the difficulty is not the issue.
MasterLuigi452 Feb 8, 2014 @ 7:51pm 
My friend. Cave Story itself is a challenging game.
Normal is the way to go if you want the full challenge without raging too much.
Besides. You have Hell to finish if you really want the challenge.
Hard mode is actually being close to original community made challenge: Minimal Item run.

As for why it's released on Steam, I assume it's to attract more people about this amazing game.
Sure it's $10, but in the long run, it's worth it.
Cardboard Box Feb 8, 2014 @ 8:31pm 
Why hard mode. I am doing a completion run on this and have beat hard mode."not on this Computer mind you" and that was after 20 or so playthroughs on normal and still wasn'y able to beat it for about a month. That boss monster x isn't that hard unless you suck at dodging in that case get some practice
HeelTaker Feb 8, 2014 @ 10:10pm 
Guys! Guys! GUYS!

Can you please realize that the difficulty of the game is not what I have issue with, I like that about this game! I am glad I am on hard mode because it is FUN being challenged so much.

Again! The issue I have is with the terrible, horrible, disgusting lack of checkpoints before bosses. This is a MUST in games to avoid exactly what I am experiencing now, all who say to the contrary are stuck in the past when this was acceptable because developers didn't know any better and PADDED THEIR GAMES WITH IT.

Okay fair enough this game was first made in 2004 when this kinda thing was the norm but gaming has grown up since then and learned lessons about WASTING PEOPLE'S TIME and it should have been fixed for the Steam release.

This one aspect of the game is poor game design plain and simple and CHEAP added "difficulty" and I don't for the life of me understand why everyone buries their head in the sand with their fingers in their ears muttering "Masterpiece! Masterpiece! Masterpeice!".

It's an awesome game yeah but this is an unforgivable practice in gaming today...
Last edited by HeelTaker; Feb 8, 2014 @ 10:12pm
MasterLuigi452 Feb 9, 2014 @ 12:52am 
See this is why I hate today's gaming generations.
Too many check points to make some games just a breeze.

Not all games mind you.
Last edited by MasterLuigi452; Feb 9, 2014 @ 12:52am
Drower Feb 9, 2014 @ 12:26pm 
I love this game, but I agree. You die in a boss battle, and then before you can do it again, you have to watch the dialogue over and over again, every time.

And the argument that too many check points would make the game too easy isn't very valid. The original poster's complaint is that the same sections have to done over and over again, not that the hard parts are too hard.

I'm perfectly fine with games without save points, like they used to be, when the game is made with that in mind. But this game has save points, and then they should be placed in such a way that the game doesn't become frustrating.
Remagamer Feb 9, 2014 @ 7:07pm 
Originally posted by HeelTaker:
What you have just done is exactly what I am talking about. Why on earth does the cardinal sin of games keep getting swept under the rug by everyone?

I mean a free game fair enough whatever but it is inexcusable for a full Steam release.

Why am I the only one that seems to think this is a problem?

As far as your question goes, I always try the hardest level of every game by default as I enjoy the challenge, again the difficulty is not the issue.


The difficulty is THE ONLY issue. You wanted a challenge? You got one. That's your challenge.
Rubyyoshi Feb 9, 2014 @ 8:10pm 
Originally posted by MasterLuigi452:
See this is why I hate today's gaming generations.
Too many check points to make some games just a breeze.

Not all games mind you.

I haven't played many recent games in today's generation, but I don't mind having to redo stuff. Even if it's tedious. (Puppy fetch quest and grasstown/bushlands for example)

This attitude over the difficulty reminds me of a scenerio that we can imagine here.

Say you get a new game. You know absolutely nothing about it. Do you try the hardest difficulty because you want a challenge? Or do you play through the game normally so you know what to expect and how the gameplay is? Do you try the game just for the story or do you play so you can get bragging rights because you can beat it on the hardest difficulty or get the best time or some other thing.

Honestly though, Hard mode for me was a gigantic head ache, but I got through it because of brute force and some planning. I admit, Hard isn't the best option to start with. You are stuck with 3 hp. (7 because of a script mess-up late game. You talk to someone and get it in the dialogue.) You miss out on argueably one of the better weapons; the missile launcher and super missile launcher. (Upgraded version)
kyleskillinit Feb 9, 2014 @ 8:22pm 
The game teaches you to expect anything, I am on my first playthrough on and its also on hard, but I beat Monster X or whatever his name was with barely any health left, makeing it harder than it had to be afterwards, but the satisfaction of doing so definately made the game that much more fuffiling for me. that just my view on it. I think the check points are just fine.
MasterLuigi452 Feb 9, 2014 @ 8:48pm 
What I don't like the save option of Cave Story/+ is that you cannot copy your save file to another slot.
Thus one choice means you have to stick with it unless you start from beginning.
Last edited by MasterLuigi452; Feb 9, 2014 @ 8:48pm
Shadowspaz Feb 9, 2014 @ 10:10pm 
The complaint of there being too few checkpoints has always made me chuckle. It adds a lot to the difficulty. It may come across as artificial, but it definitely forces players to focus on their approach. Most games that use few checkpoints (Volgarr comes to mind) feel fantastic once you get the hang of it. Once you can get to the boss every time, it feels great to realize how much skill you've gained. Something that would cause you to ragequit and rant on the forums becomes a walk in the park.

I guarantee you wouldn't have a problem with this playing on normal, because it really is a short way to go before the boss. It's nervewracking on hard, though, since, as you said, everything is a one-hit-kill. So this makes it feel MUCH longer. And on top of that, I'm willing to bet you approach it cautiously, killing everything methodically before proceeding. Either that, or you charge through, just trying to bypass it all, and die repeatedly, which might explain your statistic of actually getting to the boss 10% of the time.

---

I really don't think people know the proper way to approach games that are much harder than their skill level. Most of my friends hate masocore kinds of games, and watching them try to play one, they're sloppy. They run though, and make some progress, and die. Then they do it again, and die. And then they might get a bit farther, but each death just seems to♥♥♥♥♥♥them off. So they keep trying, again and again, just getting angry, impatient, and sloppy.

Stay level-headed. Focus on EXACTLY what you're doing, so that when you die, you know a dozen ways you could avoid it next time. This kind of focus will keep you progressing, bit by bit, with each death. And after a while, you'll start doing worse. You'll progress slower. When I hit that point, I usually start bargaining with myself. Usually a "Just set one more new record," or "I'll stop when I seriously jack things up three times in a row." This sets a good point to stop, because now, you aren't getting any better. Take a break, watch an episode of some TV show, or play a different game. When you come back, you'll be so much better than you'd expect, and it feels so easy. This is just how the human mind works. You practice until you're mentally exhausted, and after recovering, it all just feels like second nature.
Last edited by Shadowspaz; Feb 9, 2014 @ 10:10pm
MasterLuigi452 Feb 10, 2014 @ 12:22am 
Practice makes perfect.
This is coming from WR holder of 60FPS Sacred Ground Speedrunner.
kyleskillinit Feb 10, 2014 @ 12:23am 
nuff said
Jaibamon Feb 12, 2014 @ 12:49pm 
I'm late to the party but let me say you something. I know hard mode is interesting at the first playtrough because we as gamers want challenge. And CaveStory+ in normal mode may seem a easy game.

I can tell you, normal mode is pretty hard in the second half of the game, specially if you want to get the best ending. This part (the checkpoint before Monster X) is one of that. The game test your skills to past trough obstacles before the boss, and since this point it will be more parts like this. Get used to it.

Maybe this means you aren't enough skilled to play it in hard. Your capabilities aren't good enough; you hit a wall. Please, consider playing this game in normal first.

Ah, and guess what? Checkpoint allocation are part of the difficult. When you reach the last level you will notice how the difficult curve rises because this. You say you play hard mode games for a challenge, well, this is one, and remember! It is not impossible.
Last edited by Jaibamon; Feb 12, 2014 @ 12:52pm
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