Why do most TFC players hate TF2?

[Allegory_Violation_8193]

DISCLAIMER: First thing fist, I posted a differnt version of this conversation on the TF2 fourms called " Why do most Tf2 players hate TFC. I had the idea of linking the discussion together.

I enjoy playing both games, and I've noticed TFC and TF2 players don't get along very well. Why do some TFC players hate tf2.

Here is the linked post of the Tf2 discussion:http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/558752449879053064/

[Paft]

If you play both isn't the answer clear? Ancient rehash topic btw.

-WACKY ZANY STEREOTYPICAL PIXAR REJECTED CHARACTERS.
-Humour got irritatingly old quick.
-It isn't fast paced. Consolized, like most FPS' after 2005.
-Item whoring / hats.
-Immature feeling about it and community.

Team Fortress Classic is a Valve-developed mod that was originally released with a Half Life patch. Back in the day, when men were men, women were nervous, and Medics were faster than Scouts, it ruled the FPS scene with Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, and Counter-Strike.

Now, only a handful of people play it, and most mentions of it are from Team Fortress 2 fanboys that hate it because it doesn't have WACKY ZANY STEREOTYPICAL PIXAR REJECTED CHARACTERS, item whoring and it is too difficult for them to understand.

C&P from: http://tcrf.net/Team_Fortress_Classic

edit:
There's also a generation difference. The vets of TFC are in their late 20s, 30s and over, at a time when FPS was commonly faced paced.

edit2: As posted in the TF2 thread..look at the comments of a typical TF2 player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_ez5fifG0

[eugensiman]

Basically, Paft is right, TFC players can't stand anything less sportish (or less mechanically painful to play), than their beloved game. They just can't make any excuse to something that is able to play at least OK without spending days on that. I don't blame them for that, they just present the completely another generation of gamers.

Also, I understand very cleraly, that TFC players love their game so much, because the thing they were given with was a semi-well made broken shooter with good idea, but half of the classes beung useless, bugs recreating the meta-game completely etc. The game you're playing NOW in TFC is made by PLAYERS themselves.

Sadly, but this automatic "whoooa, this is going to be bad, this is for casual schoolboys" sometimes doesn't let most of the TFC players understand, that most of the classes in TF2 have very high skill ceilings, mechanical skills (grenade timing, bunnyhop etc) mostly "replaced" with more strategical and positional desicions involved and so on.

But anyway, Paft, come ooon, they're not as "wacky zany and rejected" as you think they are supposed to be. Actual voice lines, comics and Meet The Team videos add a lot to these characters. Even thir presence in the battle of clones makes them... a little bit less stereotypical.

[Paft]

Either way the whole style and humour quickly got so overly played out to the point of being completely annoying. Like an old meme.

[Major Havoc]

I play TFC and TF2 quite often now.

[Debbie Does Dallas Downer]

I don't think TF2 is 'consolized'. I doesn't have a sprint button, it doesn't have ironsights, it doesn't have a dodge button, it doesn't have regenerating health (unless your medic :p), it doesn't have grenades (thank jeff). 99% of players play on PC with a keyboard and mouse on community dedicated servers.
It has rocket jumping and actually more ways of jumping than TFC. When I play demo or soldier in TF2 I cover as much ground and as quickly as I do with any class in TFC, if you find TF2 really slow you don't know how to play or you aren't playing with good enough people. There's a lot more ways to die in TF2 and you die quickly too if you make a mistake or overextend, TFC you die 79% to mindless spam, 17% snipers, 4% someone actually aimed at you and shot you.
How do you have such a strong opinion on TF2 with only 2.1 hours in it Paft?

And can you please explain to me when medics were faster than scouts in TFC.

[Lucifer Sam]

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

And can you please explain to me when medics were faster than scouts in TFC.

I think he meant when the bunnyhop cap wasn't put in yet, thought granted ANYONE could be faster than scouts with very well timed jumps back then...

[Lucifer Sam]

I personally do prefer TF2 over TFC, mainly because TFC was just Valve rehashing QTF for their engine with so many ♥♥♥♥ broken because of it that it can't be seen as approachable to most gamers now. I like it's fast paced gameplay and mechanics that aren't used in TF2, but it's has one of the highest learning curves I have seen in any FPS I have played and the class balance and weapon balance is a joke. I found Fortress Forever, despite removing some features that made some TFC players hate the game with a passion, to be much better when it comes to doing the original QTF justice...

[GGazo]

TFC ftw

[Paft]

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

I don't think TF2 is 'consolized'. I doesn't have a sprint button, it doesn't have ironsights, it doesn't have a dodge button, it doesn't have regenerating health (unless your medic :p), it doesn't have grenades (thank jeff). 99% of players play on PC with a keyboard and mouse on community dedicated servers.

OK it isn't that consolized, even though it is actually on console.

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

It has rocket jumping and actually more ways of jumping than TFC. When I play demo or soldier in TF2 I cover as much ground and as quickly as I do with any class in TFC, if you find TF2 really slow you don't know how to play or you aren't playing with good enough people.

Yeah, if you're ignoring bhop.

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

There's a lot more ways to die in TF2 and you die quickly too if you make a mistake or overextend, TFC you die 79% to mindless spam, 17% snipers, 4% someone actually aimed at you and shot you.

If we're talking about crappy pub play, yes. Pub play is garbage since there are no rules or sportsmanship. TF2 is better suited for publics.

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

How do you have such a strong opinion on TF2 with only 2.1 hours in it Paft?

2.1 hrs was enough to realize it wasn't for me.

Publicado originalmente por Jeff the god of Biscuits:

And can you please explain to me when medics were faster than scouts in TFC.

I have no idea what is meant by that. Excluding that I like the quote.


Also as a final note.. Quake and TFC have ruined standard FPS for me. I don't care for anything without fast movement. So it isn't just TF2 I don't care for.

[Debbie Does Dallas Downer]

You can buy DOOM and Quake 2 on playstation does that mean they're consolised modern FPS?

I wasn't ignoring bunnyhopping when I said in TF2 you can cover as much distance as soldier/demo than scout/medic in TFC. And the 79% mindless spam wasn't just a reference to pub tfc it applies pickups/matches too just subsititue the 17% sniper with slightly better spam.

The difference between public play and organised play in TF2 is just as stark as the difference in TFC. You judge TF2 to be suited for public play after a few hours of play and no experience in organised play. Good TF2 players do exactly the same when they try TFC out for a few hours and they come to the same conclusion for TFC.

Also, I don't think you've ever played much Quake but I'm just going on a hunch on that one.

[Chaspen]

Publicado originalmente por OctagonalKahn:

DISCLAIMER: First thing fist, I posted a differnt version of this conversation on the TF2 fourms called " Why do most Tf2 players hate TFC. I had the idea of linking the discussion together.

I enjoy playing both games, and I've noticed TFC and TF2 players don't get along very well. Why do some TFC players hate tf2.

Here is the linked post of the Tf2 discussion:http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/558752449879053064/

Becuase people who play TFC think tf2 is a mess. They think that TF2 is all hats. to be honest. I dont really care about hats that much

[Paft]

TF2 released at the same time on both PC and Xbox360...so that leads me to believe the development had to have been made to cater gameplay on a pad in some way or another.
Q2 was on console 2 years after PC.

TF2 isn't for me mmmkay? I made that clear in my first post. It doesn't matter how long I have played, I Don't like it (and I have played with the right people). I understand what you are saying, because 2.1hrs isn't really enough to judge a game that has as much depth as TFC for example...but TF2 is way more straight forward and can be picked up by someone who is already famialir with TF much quicker. I got the gist of the game within 30mins at the most...

What I was trying to say was that TF2 is better balanced therefor works much better on public servers compared to TFC. TFC pub is a mess.

That's only because of that medic crit boost. Ground movement is still slow as hell compared to bhoping.

Q2 was probably the first on-line game I played followed by TFC/Q3.

[Debbie Does Dallas Downer]

TF2 was released as part of the orange box with portal and hl2:ep2 and received almost no post-launch updates (compared to the 20+ on PC). Also, most of its development time happened before the xbox 360 was released. Made for console? I don't think so.

I get that you don't like TF2 mmmmmk for sure. But no, spending 2.1 hours in TF2 will not get you the gist of it. There are over 10 game modes (Arena, CTF, 5CP, attack/defend, attack/defend 2CP, medieval, king of the hill, mann vs. machine, payload, payload race, special deilvery, territorial control) and about . There's got to be over 200 weapons and some of them change how classes play a lot.

I'm not saying if you gave TF2 more of a chance you would like it because I don't think you would. What I'm saying is that when it comes to TF2 you are ignorant. Which answers the original question nicely. Why do some TFC players hate TF2? they are ignorant toward it. The players I know who actually hate TF2 haven't even played it, and the reverse works for TF2 players. Go to any forum and discuss Call of Duty and most people will bash it, the people who bash it the most will be the people who never played it.

[Paft]

Watching various gamely footage is usually enough to decide if something is for you or not, without even having to play. I have never played WoW... but I can tell you now I will not like it.

I'm bashing it because I can't stand it, slight ignorance doesn't matter. You're talking like I haven't got the full picture. C'mon, this is TF2 we're talking about...

The reverse from TF2 players is usually this:

Now, only a handful of people play it, and most mentions of it are from Team Fortress 2 fanboys that hate it because it doesn't have WACKY ZANY STEREOTYPICAL PIXAR REJECTED CHARACTERS, item whoring and it is too difficult for them to understand.

[eugensiman]

I'd hev said, not "too difficult to understand", "too difficult to pick for the first time" - it varies from TF2 severely, the official Valve guides you've got in game are lies, you MUST practice a lot of purely mechanical skill etc. TFC is simple enough to understand theoretically, if you have a stable head on your own shoulders.

But I can understand Paft. That's simply NOT his thing at all, that's it.
BTW, Paft, have you watched some "great guides", like "Engineer bible" for TF2, or some competiteve, either 6v6 or Highlander matches? They're quite interesting, at least in terms of... overall-gaming knowledge.

It's still funny enough to see, that some TFC players consider fanboys of TF2 being literally posessed with "item whoring". Actually, this is like the thing, which gets the biggest percentage of whining and complaintment from all the levels of play.