Zoxphyl 19 кві 2013 о 1:59
People need to start making more original SFM videos
Can we please stop getting TF2 versions of scenes from popular movies/TV shows/web video and start making things with original plots and characters?
Автор останньої редакції: Zoxphyl; 24 лип о 6:02
Показані коментарі 115 із 108
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raptornx01 19 кві 2013 о 3:29 
You wouldn't just need to know how to animate, you'd need to know how to make models, make maps, make particles, create music, voice act, edit, etc etc. otherwise your video will be, "just another video based on 'that-game-with-the-hats-that-shall-not-be-named' or 'that-game-with-the-crowbar-that-shall-not-be-named'" and that stuff is a very different can of swimming things then just animating.

Really when it comes down to it, if you don't like it, don't watch it, or make the videos you think should be made yourself.
Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++ 19 кві 2013 о 7:15 
Zoxphyl,

I totally agree with Raptor on this... SFM was release to spawn creativity on within the TF2 and partially for the Half-Life2 worlds. It was not developed for other game engines, at least not yet. That is why most of the assets incorporated and shipped with SFM are TF2 based.

The movies you see with characters outside these 2 worlds are original content. These are models that have been ported to SFM and are totally outside the realm or intent. Look at the vid based on L4D (1 or 2), Portal 2 and the Dota stuff, these models were not intended to be used with the game engine behind SFM.

The other thing you mention is it was released last June. This is a very complicated program when you dig into it and it is only a Beta version, so there is not much documentation on the aspects of using it and ppl are still tweaking with things to find out what it will do..

Like Raptor says, 'If you don't like it, don't watch it, or make the videos you think should be made yourself.'; and I'll add to that, If you don't know how to do it, Learn like the rest of us are doing now.
Автор останньої редакції: Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++; 19 кві 2013 о 10:45
Cubic's Rube 19 кві 2013 о 7:28 
Well I'm sure the same can be said for Garry's mod videos or any other game that has a machinima possibility. Original videos depend on a lot of factors like previously pointed out, and coming up with something original in the first place can be hard sometimes.

But I'm sure there are original stuff in the making, let's just give them time.

Also not every "unoriginal" stuff is bad. There are some pretty funny ones or really well done homages out there. Don't let the badly made/rendered/executed stuff form your judgement. This happens in every other situation when they give the community creative tools to work with.
neilvkidd 19 кві 2013 о 7:46 
As a longtime screenwriter I'm looking for a great animator to work with on developing solid stories. The problem is that I would like a few more models to use and am not sure about that process yet - can you do a lip sync with non-TF2 models?
Psi 19 кві 2013 о 7:50 
there are likely a lot of people working on original stuff. It's extremely time consuming when you're doing everything yourself. The process for porting models to source engine is complicated and takes a lot of time. The animation process takes a lot of time. Working with and experimenting with particle systems takes an INSANE amount of time.

Would not surprise me one bit for some projects to take as long as a year to complete. Myself, been working on a Transformers short film off and on since October or something.
Автор останньої редакції: Psi; 19 кві 2013 о 7:58
Psi 19 кві 2013 о 7:53 
Цитата допису neilvkidd:
can you do a lip sync with non-TF2 models?

I believe there are ways to do it with scripts so you can still use the phenomes even on custom models. But i have not bothered with that, i have just been animating their mouths manually which is no problem as long as the model has the the required bones for the mouth, jaw, and lips etc.
Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++ 19 кві 2013 о 11:04 
More and more models are coming out in hwm format, so eventually, there will be more assets that will have lip-sync and facial capabilities. Ppl are taking more and more models to editors and creating a larger library of characters.

One of the downfalls to SFM (as I see it) is that it is propritory to Valve based content, then again it is a Valve tool so why shouldn't it be?

Another problem is that it is focused on an earilier version of the TF2 Game engine and as it is Beta, the flavour of the engine can change without notice (example is the latest update skewed the bone structures of some "original" assets like the Sentry, which skewed mosts projects using them into an unusable state without major re-animation), therefore any asset developed, ported to or used must conform to the flavour of the day.

I think that a lot of animators are waiting for the environment to become more stable. It takes a huge amount of time and resources to animate a movie, edit it, then render and produce it, especially if you're trying to do it yourself or in a small collaboration of friends. I don't think they want to get half way through a project to find that the newest update has skewed their previous efforts.

On top of this, the next time you watch a big time animated feature, stick around for the credits... Count the number of animators, 3D FX artists, prop and character creators, skin artists, etc used in the production... also, it takes them a couple of years to push out an hour and a half movie using production quality software.

Weigh that with what we have and the amount of time we've had SFM at our disposal, I think you will now agree that the stuff that is out there is pretty amazing.
Автор останньої редакції: Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++; 19 кві 2013 о 11:08
Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++ 19 кві 2013 о 11:12 
As for phonemes on custom models, check out the tutorial put out by MaxofS2D,

http://youtu.be/dHNZgnNLzTg
raptornx01 19 кві 2013 о 12:00 
What you can and cannot do with custom models is iffy. it really depends on how much time the modeler spent on making them. I mainly just use pony models so I can't say for others. but those do allow for manual lipsync and the newer versions even have a pretty decent phenome script for automatic lipsync.

The creator may no like them, but they are a good gauge of what we are talking about. the current updated pack of models took 6 months to update. Not make, UPDATE. and the person that did the update is a professional computer artist. now if it takes that long just to update some models. imagine creating, not just the characters, but every piece of furnature, every vehicle, every weapon (if any), etc, fro scratch.

olike I said, it's a matter of how much effort people want to put into it. many are just lazy. or just do straight port from other games with no alterations. (An example would be a recent release of some spiderman models from the recent game. it looks good and has alot of flex, but there is no mouth flex, and three fingers on each hand are fused together, meaning you can't do his signature hand motion. that stuff limits what you can do with it)

Pte Jack, one thing about what you had to say though. Valve has said one of the things they wanted when offering this to the public is to give people a tool to make their own films. there is even a part in the wiki where they say you are even allowed to make for-profit productions with it provided you don't use any valve asset. the tool itself it open for free use for anyone and however they want to use it.
Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++ 19 кві 2013 о 12:19 
@ raptor,

True enough, they have said that, but what I am trying to say is that the tool, in its current form, is geared to TF2, Not the original HL, HL2 (although most work except for maps), L4D, L4D2, Portal2, Dota2, any of the mods, etc without some modification to the models contained in the GCFs or VPKs. Nor is it geared to take any other asset that is not in the Valve Model Format. Most of the characters, maps or props seen in clips that are outside the TF2 and limited HL2 environments have been tweaked for TF2 or Garry's Mod in game play or outright edited to work in SFM (adding HDR to maps for instance).

Anyone that wants to import or create assets for SFM from outside the Valve environment will have to be proficient with some sort of 3D editing software, know how to extract other game content or create their character in that program (adding bones, any flex or animation they need for that character), export to Valve SMD format (or if lucky enough to have a plug in that works to DMX format) then use the proper tools to convert the assets to the proper DMX or MDL format used by SFM.

The SFM tool is developing, more and more features are being documented and ppl are start to write additions for it (SFMPhys is an excellent example of this.) So who can say where the tool will go when it comes out of Beta... and who knows how long they are going to take to produce version 1.0??
Psi 19 кві 2013 о 13:18 
yep. i mean to be honest, it's actually an amazing thing that Valve did considering all of the content that was already available for Garrysmod which most of can be easily used in SFM. There is a guy that ported every single prop from every Mass Effect game to source engine. What this means is for someone wanting to make a Mass Effect short film, the sky is the limit because you have every thing at your disposal for building up environments straight from scratch just out of props (he even include walls and floors and ceilings from the games so you can literally design your own Mass Effect environment right in SFM meaning you don't even need to be a map designer!)
PalmliX 19 кві 2013 о 17:54 
Well not to toot my own horn too much but here are the SFM video's I've created so far that feature basically no Valve content at all: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNsZGPwBlAfQxAQ1T4YSZAMzTx3OMh4mK

Also, I'm not allowed to say too much about it at this point but I'm currently working full-time on a 20 minute SFM short film featuring all original content and characters which will be finished by the end of Sept.

Besides my own work there's the project Elements: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZVm-Rb-WRo

and Dome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIxVjaWiXyo

Sparkle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-zGwANYiw0

and of course Zach Scott is always working on some truly original creations: http://www.youtube.com/user/Ronaldthecock?feature=watch

And others, so the stuff is out there, you just need to a look a little harder to find it. But yes I agree, there should be more 'original' videos but honestly what can you expect with free software that ships with a whole bunch of easy to use content? Most people aren't going to go out of their to make life difficult for themselves, only a few of us are crazy enough for that. ;)

Автор останньої редакції: PalmliX; 19 кві 2013 о 18:09
Pte Jack is away for a MONTH++ 19 кві 2013 о 20:50 
I too know of a few "Classified" projects that are on the go... and it won't belong before I get away from the poster scene and into some animating myself. It has taken some time to gather the tools required.

But, PalmliX said it himself... It is now April, he's probably been working on his project since Jan or Feb (or earilier) and the 20 minute feature is not due out until September. And as he also said, there are some pretty unique and high quality pieces out there already, you just have to tweak your search for them.

The basic message I was trying to relay here was... "It's new, people are still tweaking it and learning the ropes (if they can find them). It's going to take time for the original concepts to flow... Be Patient!! They're Coming!!! " I don't think Pixar or Dreamworks got their first animated movies out within 6 months of getting their tools either!!
Zoxphyl 20 кві 2013 о 10:18 
I think a lot of people have misunderstood me. When I said people need to more original I did NOT say that they had to go and create entirley new models not based on Valve games (though that would be nice), I meant people need to make fewer videos that just take the audio from another movie/TV show/video game and replace the original characters with Valve characters. We dont need a quadrillion "Game Grumps but with TF2 characters" videos, and we need far fewer "That-little-girls-show-that-shall-not-be-named" SFM videos.

By all means continue to make SFM videos with Valve characters, but make your OWN plots.
R234 20 кві 2013 о 11:41 
Well then, lemme join the shameless self-advertising train :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBamIRB91f8
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