├┼┼┼┤ Feb 22, 2013 @ 10:44am
Such a shame...
Being this game one of the best for Steam imho, the fact that even if you paid for the normal game + DLC, you still have tons of bug (specially achievements..) that won't ever be solved, since the creator is working on a revamped version of the game, which we would have to pay again.

He should first FINISH this product, let it be as it is WITHOUT BUGS, then start making the revamped game he wants to sell again, because I am not gonna pay him any more cents if he doesn't solve the problems this version has.. not everyone is going to buy his new version and they all should have his BOI+DLC without bugs. Don't you agree?
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NukeHP Feb 22, 2013 @ 12:10pm 
No, not really. All of what you said sounds very nice and noble, but I'd imagine it'd be highly impractical, especially for a two-man team and when McMillen is already also working on Mew-Genics. And I have no clue what Florian is doing, but I know he's put in significant time just trying to make the game work as it currently stands. Consider also that many limitations were simply because of Flash, which will be gone in Rebirth. All of that said, I think the biggest counter to the idea of refusing to pay money for it is that Rebirth also features a WotL-sized expansion on top of it. Therefore, if you think of it as paying for that with the added bonus of getting all the performance and bug fixes, then it doesn't seem so bad. To me it doesn't, in any case. Considering, in my experience, none of the bugs are really that intrusive in the grand scheme of things, I'm fine with it. It would be different if the game was unplayable or nearly so due to the bugs, but that's not the case.

Also, perhaps to soften the blow for you a little, they are trying to make sure they give discounts to those of us that already own the original.
├┼┼┼┤ Feb 22, 2013 @ 1:06pm 
The achievement bug (the four unlockings like The left Hand being lost once deleting so.sol, some chest-finishing runs unlock wrong steam achievements..) are NOT related to flash at all.

The time they would spend solving bugs like those is 1/200 compared of re-doing the game again.

And anyway, even if it costed the triple, we should be able to get the product we paid for complete (with all bugs fixeds, or an statement about why X bug can't be solved on flash), because unfinishing a product to sell another one is the pure definition of STEAL.
Jmd132 Feb 22, 2013 @ 1:52pm 
He spent a total of 8 months to make the final game, 4 of those 8 months were spent by making the DLC and its patches. He mentioned how unstable the game became with all that content in Flash: that fixing a bug created even more bugs. So its impossible for him and its patience to fix all the bugs.
Also he is now working on 2 more projects, Mew-Genics and some sort sequel to Super Meat Boy.
And we get a remake of Isaac because of the requests for getting the game on consoles, coop, more content...
Oh, and Ed is not developing the remake, its being done by Nicalis.
Besides, the final version of the DLC is just incredible compared to the first version, now we have like 10 small bugs and the achievement bugs.
NukeHP Feb 22, 2013 @ 2:15pm 
As already mentioned, Nicalis is handling a lot of the work of the remake, so the time spent "re-doing the game" isn't really as much of his time. I'd also like to know how you came to the conclusion of 1/200 the time to fix bugs over remaking the game; without some kind of backing evidence/explanation, you're just pulling things out of thin air. As Jmd said, there've been updates in various formats from him and Florian regarding the nightmare of fixing bugs in Isaac, so how do you know that the time spent trying to iron out everything would be small in any sense? If anything, it sounds like it'd be a horrible waste of their time compared to the remake.

Finally, by your logic any game with any bugs isn't finished provided those bugs are theoretically able to fixed (regardless of practicality). That's fine if that's what you really believe, but my sensibilities are such that I consider the current Isaac a finished game. I can't think of any moment in my 120+ hours playing the game that bugs in any sense ruined my experience, so that's perfectly fine with me.
├┼┼┼┤ Feb 22, 2013 @ 2:30pm 
You're mixing up things.

It's true that some graphical bugs and some in-game freezes are impossible to fix due to the fact that it's flash and it sucks hard (I'm a programmer..), but fixing the wrong steam achievements (there are 4 achievements that unlock the next steam achievement that it should, thats five minutes to solve), another bug ignoring the left hand and the other 3 unlockables, it's also few mins to copy them to the save game. I am talking about FEW MINUTES that would make people being able to achieve 100% without losing Cain's eye and such everytime they close the game / restart the pc / cleancc cleans so.sol / flash deletes its own data. FEW MINUTES.
Jmd132 Feb 22, 2013 @ 2:49pm 
I kind of agree with you. He said that he would fix the Steam achievements (http://www.formspring.me/EdmundM/q/350151019230949161). But there are still 2 in-game achievements that are swapped: ???'s Soul and Eve's Bird Foot. Tell me you don't need flash to fix them and I'll completely agree with you.
Besides, are you saying that a small achievement bug will stop Ed to work on more projects and give permision to Nicalis to make a remake?
If you really want to keep secrets like Cain's Eye so badly and don't want to stop using CCleaner, back up the so.sol file or fix it yourself because it apparently takes a few minutes.
And again: The remake was a fan request, we asked for it.
├┼┼┼┤ Feb 22, 2013 @ 2:54pm 
And I would also support the remake! I'm not against it, I'm against forgetting the bugs on this one to make a new one.

Spending few minutes to fix those achievement stuffs won't stop the new game development which takes months, come on..

And yeah, I had to make an script so so.sol gets saved and updated everytime I open the game, but everyone can do this? wrong, 99% of the people can't identify the problem and less make an script to solve it. And anyway its LAME to have to use some self-made ♥♥♥♥ty script to be able to get 100% on the game :S
Jmd132 Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:09pm 
I don't know how many people have this problem, probably not a lot since there's like 3 ways to delete so.sol without knowing. If you think there's a lot of people with this problem you can do the community (and Ed) a very good favor and make a thread with the script to help a lot of people and clear confusion.
├┼┼┼┤ Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:26pm 
Another guy made the thread already weeks ago, so it's not necesary that I do the same :P. I'm always answering people why they lost their Cain's eye achievement, and how to solve it, so I try to clear confusion also!
Last edited by ├┼┼┼┤; Feb 22, 2013 @ 3:27pm
NukeHP Feb 22, 2013 @ 4:05pm 
So, the basis by which you call this game unfinished, then, is that there are bugs with the achievements? That seems to have become the focus of your argument, and it makes for a pretty weak one in my eyes. You could certainly complain that it's a nuisance; you could even say it is laziness if it truly is as simple a programming fix as you say, but to call it an unfinished product and the remake then stealing from consumers based on that is utterly ridiculous. Whether the achievements work or not, the game is still there and works.

As I've implied, complaining about these things is all well and good, but I think some restraint should be exercised in just how far you take it. The Binding of Isaac is very clearly a finished product that doesn't really need to be fixed in order to move forward with the remake.

I would also like to know how often the loss of something like Cain's Eye or The Left Hand actaully affects people, just out of curiosity. I know I've seen some potential examples of it pop up on here lately, but it never happened in my time with the game.
Werruraz Feb 23, 2013 @ 8:55am 
Originally posted by void *pointer:
Being this game one of the best for Steam imho, the fact that even if you paid for the normal game + DLC, you still have tons of bug (specially achievements..) that won't ever be solved, since the creator is working on a revamped version of the game, which we would have to pay again.

He should first FINISH this product, let it be as it is WITHOUT BUGS, then start making the revamped game he wants to sell again, because I am not gonna pay him any more cents if he doesn't solve the problems this version has.. not everyone is going to buy his new version and they all should have his BOI+DLC without bugs. Don't you agree?

I Disagree. So much naivety and ignorance in your post.
thehomebre2134 Feb 23, 2013 @ 11:57am 
I didn't have any problems from start to platinum god...
├┼┼┼┤ Feb 23, 2013 @ 12:12pm 
Well forget this thread, it seems that for you the game is perfect (luckily you don't have problems when others have) or to you are conformist with a bugged game and will defend that to death.

No point discussing to a wall, sorry guys.
NukeHP Feb 23, 2013 @ 1:38pm 
If you were tired of the argument, then you should have just said so. At no point did this go beyond being a civil discussion, so to try to close it off with such a cheap generalization of my feelings of the game is very poor form on your part.
DeViLMaN666_Qc Feb 23, 2013 @ 7:31pm 
wait what you cry about few achievement and not even in-game content when only 2 guy created this game ? damn dont go play game like Battlefield 3 made by huge compagny EA with many ingame bug still not fixed since day 1 after more then a years like in Helicopter when you launch a TV Missile sometime it blow up on you and teamkill you and your teammate when you play online trust me this is not even comparable to your little nitpick over a independant game made by 2 single guy.

and what is bugged the achievement for cain eye ? you still get the correct item ingame just look wikia page they say it all
http://bindingofisaac.wikia.com/wiki/Achievements


Complete The Chest with Cain.

(Bugged as of 1.48, unlocks when beating "The Chest" with Judas.)

huh no big deal ? way to QQ over something minor like that when the game cost only 5$ full price REALLY ?
Last edited by DeViLMaN666_Qc; Feb 23, 2013 @ 7:32pm
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Date Posted: Feb 22, 2013 @ 10:44am
Posts: 28