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A Useless Leaping Asshole Apr 29, 2013 @ 7:00pm
Lethal Weapons seem really underpowered or even useless late game.
It might just be me, but early game the shotty and machine guns seemed on par with the other items. But in the later Lockpick episodes, and basically all the pickpocket stories I found myself rather going without an item than pick up the lethal guns. It seems like it has like, a trifecta of bad debuffs that make them especially poor choices.

Since it alerts nearby guards, it's not good for holding position. Since they can be revived, it makes them useless on the later levels where no matter where they are, someone will find them because of so many guards. The mix of those two debuffs make it so if you die near the people you shot (a very common result from what I've seen) it makes it take so much longer for anyone to come revive you, and since there's almost always another NPC within a few feet of each other, the dart gun will keep a NPC out for longer than a lethal gun will anyway. When you mix in the 10 coin per use mechanic, there's no way to even come close to clearing out a single floor, even if you have every coin in the whole map.

Despite the text wall, this isn't really a rant about it, I just wanted to know if the two guns were supposed to get this incredibly impractical. If so, why? I mean, the ammo limit and the sound are enough cons, it seems like perma killing them like the C4 does wouldn't make them overpowered and might put them back into calculations of what items you want to take, because as it stands, I almost never see anyone take the guns past any non-gun items.

EDIT: As the thread has become active again I feel I should point out a couple things that were NOT in the game at the time of the original post.

1: the rocket launcher was not a weapon
2: the glass breaking mechanic was not yet in play
3: the "enhanced" and "zombie" game modes were also not in play

These three changes have all made lethal weapons far more useful in certain situations, so even though I still don't take them often, they're no longer seem to be severely lacking in usefulness like back in the day.
Last edited by A Useless Leaping Asshole; Dec 25, 2013 @ 8:56pm
Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
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ProbablyChinese Apr 29, 2013 @ 7:04pm 
During the livestream yesterday, the devs did talk about how guns feel useless later on, and they were brainstorming ideas about it. If I remember correctly, Andy Schatz said something about buffing them later? I think what I'm talking about it somewhere in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvj5iCJR9c&feature=c4-feed-u
Naiad Apr 29, 2013 @ 7:34pm 
If you bump a guard while he's reviving someone, he'll quit reviving them and come after you. Presumably, Cleaner can just take out a guy while he's trying to revive his buddy. Do this enough times to get a whole bunch of guards coming after you and you can wipe them all out at once.

You could probably chain-clean everyone who comes to turn on the power after you turn it off, then after enough get KO'd just shoot them all dead, then you don't have to worry about guards anymore :)

Dart-gun is a single target weapon, SMG and shotgun can take out at least three enemies with each shot, so it has that going for it too.
Penultimo Apr 29, 2013 @ 8:34pm 
You can move around guards dead bodies and hide them, I hide like 6 in a bush once that nobody came and raised.

So they arn't totally useless.
Bulletmarshin Apr 29, 2013 @ 9:20pm 
@Penultimo
Wow I didn't think about that!
absolutely increʌʌʌʌʌʌʌ Apr 29, 2013 @ 10:37pm 
Yea that is really useful to know.
Bad Astronaut Apr 30, 2013 @ 10:37am 
Originally posted by absolutely increʌʌʌʌʌʌʌʌ:
Yea that is really useful to know.
That would have been useful on that sky bridge last night, eh?
across the sea Apr 30, 2013 @ 12:01pm 
how do you hide stuff in bushes?
AndyN. @pixelatedpost  [developer] Apr 30, 2013 @ 12:20pm 
As you are kicking a body around, enter a bush and you can kick it into the bush. If the body is centered on the bush, he will not be seen by guards. It takes time and skill, but is pretty powerful.
InvasiveWeeds Apr 30, 2013 @ 12:20pm 
Originally posted by andrew.shehehe:
how do you hide stuff in bushes?

walk into the skeleton/corpse

you push it
absolutely increʌʌʌʌʌʌʌ Apr 30, 2013 @ 10:05pm 
Originally posted by Bad Astronaut:
Originally posted by absolutely increʌʌʌʌʌʌʌʌ:
Yea that is really useful to know.
That would have been useful on that sky bridge last night, eh?

Even wrenches make skeletons it sucks. :(
SundownKid May 2, 2013 @ 12:00am 
The guns are indeed completely useless in the levels with a ton of guards. It's better to sneak around them or put them to sleep than to try and kill them. Even if you do hide the body, it will alert the nearby guards to your presence. I think that a way to fix this would be to add more powerful guns in later levels, like a grenade launcher (instant C4 explosion when it hits a wall or enemy), or stealthier guns like a silenced pistol that doesn't alert guards.
Last edited by SundownKid; May 2, 2013 @ 12:12am
Crosbot May 2, 2013 @ 1:25am 
Originally posted by SundownKid:
or stealthier guns like a silenced pistol that doesn't alert guards.

you mean the crossbow? (:
SundownKid May 2, 2013 @ 2:57am 
Well, it would be like a crossbow but it kills the guards rather than putting them to sleep. Actually, I think that should have been the default for the crossbow, considering I always miss with it anyway.
Dragon Naoya May 2, 2013 @ 3:17am 
My personal favorite weapon is the C4, and it is a lethal weapon. Though it has much better uses, admittedly. Such as blowing up ATM machines, cameras and alarm doors.
PyreLight May 2, 2013 @ 4:20am 
Half the use of guns is that it does alert guards actually. If i unload a couple rounds, then wait for the fool to check it out, i can bypass the security checkpoint and get to gratuitous looting. Although my favorite tool is the multitool...wait, wrong game...wrench.
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Date Posted: Apr 29, 2013 @ 7:00pm
Posts: 24