Monaco > General Discussions > Topic Details
vic_viperman Apr 27, 2013 @ 10:31am
360 or PC version? Can I use 2 controllers for co op on PC? Length of game?
Topic.

This game looks freakin awesome for my wife, me, and our friends-- love the art style and music.

Game length? Looks like a level editor would be awesome for this too. If a developer sees this thread-- do you have any future plans for Monaco?

What are the differences, if any, between the 2 versions?

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Wizminkey Apr 27, 2013 @ 11:04am 
From what I understand, though I have not tried it, you can play 4 players on one computer if you rig it up right.

The possible player key configs:
WASD
Arrows
Mouse
Controller

Any combination or multiple of those could play together.

Other than that, not sure of any differences. I would guess that the Steam version would have a longer-standing number of players in the long term. Console game interest tends to peak and fall rather quickly in my experience.

Also, if you buy it direct from the developer at pocketwatchgames.com, you get a DRM-free version. This may allow for LAN play, but I have not tried it myself.
Ribonizer Apr 27, 2013 @ 11:39am 
Should warn you tho, that this game uses like most game nowaday, ♥♥♥♥ty lazy Xinput gamepad libraries instead of direct input so unless your controllers are Xbox 360 controllers they will not be seen by the game. You're gonna have to get an xbox 360 controller emulator like x360ce to get any other controller working with the game.

We had to waste over a hour trying to get our gamepads working with the game and the latest distribution of x360ce is all bugged out and wouldn't enable more than two gamepads.

I am very disapointed in this aspect of the game, altho every other is fine.
I'm really getting tired of this trend almost no games use direct input anymore. That's such ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, there are hundred of different controllers available for PC but lately MS must be so happy that everyone just "phones it in" and use non-configurable ♥♥♥♥ty xInput controls.

And no, I won't just get a xbox controller, I find x-box controllers to be terribly unconfortable, I have short fingers and I never owned a MS console in my life.

Edit: Mind you that's the ONLY complaint I have with this game, otherwise it's simply brilliant. But a game so focused on local coop forcing to use a very specific type of gamepad is pretty disapointing.
Wizminkey Apr 27, 2013 @ 1:34pm 
FYI, this game was developed on the Microsoft platform by a very small team, so to compare it to games that have broader support for third party controllers is silly.

Speaking as another such developer, I don't go buying non-360 controllers just to test if my game works alright. Instead, I'd assumed the API Microsoft gives me for controller use will do what is needed.

Please don't hold small teams up to higher standards than companies with hundreds of workers.
AndyN. @pixelatedpost  [developer] Apr 27, 2013 @ 3:57pm 
The FAQ section has some solutions to non xbox controllers. Unfortunately, with only 1 programmer, adding the conveniences you see in million dollar funded games is something that would add further development time. It came to a point where I think people just wanted to play the game, and delaying it for a nother few months for those features wasn't going to make people happy.

I haven't heard any complaints about game length. The editor will certainly add longevity to it. I've been working on the first free DLC for the last couple weeks, and depending on how well the game does, we intend to cater to our fans.

If people want more, they can get more, it just depends on how well the game does.
vic_viperman Apr 27, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
Is the level editor PC only? If so I'll buy PC version.
Gamer_Kought Apr 27, 2013 @ 5:29pm 
Originally posted by vic_viperman:
Is the level editor PC only? If so I'll buy PC version.

Yes, PC only. Steam Worshop support should also come with it in the future.
peer_inward Apr 27, 2013 @ 8:10pm 
Originally posted by Ribonizer:
We had to waste over a hour trying to get our gamepads working with the game and the latest distribution of x360ce is all bugged out and wouldn't enable more than two gamepads.
That's crazy. With DS3Tool, I had my friend using my PS3 controller in seconds, literally.

The only obstacle we faced was in regard to using a keyboard for one player and a gamepad for another player simultaneously, and with a quick glance at the forum, we found out that we just needed to assign the keyboard to anything but player 1. 1, 2, 3, play.
Let us Slay! Apr 27, 2013 @ 8:24pm 
Originally posted by AndyN.:
the conveniences you see in million dollar funded games is something that would add further development time.

First off, cubicle workers from larger companies do pretty poor controller support as well because they could care less about their companies customers.

Second, I see you're high up on the top sales list on Steam now. Is money still the major issue to adding a couple lines of code?
Let us Slay! Apr 27, 2013 @ 8:37pm 
I don't think months of work and a multi-million dollar budject is what's required. A more correct answer would probably be that you don't know how to do it.

This passing the blame with indie devs is starting to get old.
Wizminkey Apr 28, 2013 @ 10:24am 
Originally posted by Legally Baldwin:
Is money still the major issue to adding a couple lines of code?

I can tell you have a deep background in programming if you think adding universal controller support bug-free is just "adding a couple lines of code."
Let us Slay! Apr 28, 2013 @ 3:46pm 
Originally posted by Branaddar / Wizminkey:
Originally posted by Legally Baldwin:
Is money still the major issue to adding a couple lines of code?

I can tell you have a deep background in programming if you think adding universal controller support bug-free is just "adding a couple lines of code."


I haven't programmed in XNA but but their wiki reveals there are quite a few options[www.xnawiki.com] for this.

Here's a quick and easy one:
Just drop this http://sourceforge.net/projects/xnadirectinput/files/xnadirectinput/1.0.0.0/ in your project

And get which button is pressed like so

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using Microsoft.DirectX.DirectInput;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Input;
namespace Soopah.Xna.Input {
public struct DirectInputButtons{
public List<ButtonState> List;
public DirectInputButtons(Device device) {
byte[] buttons = device.CurrentJoystickState.GetButtons();
int numButtons = device.Caps.NumberButtons;
List = new List<ButtonState>(numButtons);
for (int i = 0; i < numButtons; i++) {
List.Add((buttons[i] == 0 ? ButtonState.Released : ButtonState.Pressed));
}
}
}
}

"List" contains all pressed buttons. If you want to be super lazy at the very least you could add a .txt file with button mappings defaulted to the 360 controller like:

sneakButton=0
actionButton=1
etc..

Then read that on startup and replace the button check with your variables and compare that against list.

You can also check analog controllers:

using System;
using Microsoft.DirectX.DirectInput;
using Microsoft.Xna.Framework;
namespace Soopah.Xna.Input {
public struct DirectInputThumbSticks {
public Vector2 Left;
public Vector2 Right;
public Vector2 Third;
public bool HasLeft;
public bool HasRight;
public bool HasThird;
const float center = 32767.5f;
public DirectInputThumbSticks(Device device){
JoystickState t = device.CurrentJoystickState;
HasLeft = false;
Left = Vector2.Zero;
HasRight = false;
Right = Vector2.Zero;
HasThird = false;
Third = Vector2.Zero;
if (device.Caps.NumberAxes > 0) {
HasLeft = true;
Left = new Vector2((t.X - center) / center, (t.Y - center) / center);
if (device.Caps.NumberAxes > 2) {
HasRight = true;
Right = new Vector2((t.Rz - center) / center, (t.Z - center) / center);
if (device.Caps.NumberAxes > 4){
HasThird = true;
Third = new Vector2((t.Rx - center) / center, (t.Ry - center) / center);
}
}
}
}
}
}

If you want something more robust there are many choices on the wiki page. The A.I. war dev had good things to say about SlimDX[christophermpark.blogspot.com].



Or just look at the existing open source stuff and roll your own assembly. You could get really crazy and throw in an in game interface to set the controls.


(This post just cost me $100 million dollars)
Mr. Stimpson Apr 28, 2013 @ 3:57pm 
Originally posted by Legally Baldwin:
snip

You just figured it out. The secret to programming is Google and Wikipedia. I wish I had known that when I spent all this money on books and college.

I better tell my boss about you. No more need to write code, when you could just copy and paste everything. Brilliant.
Let us Slay! Apr 28, 2013 @ 4:00pm 
Originally posted by BloodyBartuc:
Originally posted by Legally Baldwin:
snip

You just figured it out. The secret to programming is Google and Wikipedia. I wish I had known that when I spent all this money on books and college.

I better tell my boss about you. No more need to write code, when you could just copy and paste everything. Brilliant.

I think you are trying to be sarcastic but I agree with almost everything you say.

I think I'll tell my boss about this too...oh wait I am my own boss because I didn't waste time and money on college.
EVEILMINION Apr 28, 2013 @ 4:21pm 
Hey if youwant can always try modding the game yourself to, People didn't wait for namco to fix the High res problems with Dark souls.

Anyway tho they can't just slap some code in and be done with it. Time to write the code, make sure it doesn't mess with any other code, plenty of play testing and so on before releasing it.

They don't have the time to do it or the money to let someone else do it and test it. They still gotta get the 360 version out, and everyone is still waiting on the level editor, and they are working on some free dlc extra missions.

If you need it that baddly just joytokey a second and third player.
Weekend At Baldwin's Apr 28, 2013 @ 4:59pm 
I think the point is that this type of thing doesn't take months and millions to do. Its a simple fix -- really simple. As a consumer you really think its right to be expected to fix little crap like that ourselves? Sure we can, but why should we have to? I just don't understand when it comes to games (especially 'indie') why so many consumers defend this type of thing -- its like they think they're personal friends with the devs or something.

That said I do think this game is great. Its super fun (especially coop), and has a fantastic style to it. Its just that I don't understand why such simple 'features' (that have been around forever) are so difficult for devs to include.
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Date Posted: Apr 27, 2013 @ 10:31am
Posts: 21