VBS3 and ArmA3: 100+ kilometer view distances, object aggregation, forced rendering of sub-pixel-sized objects

[Elize93]

So I just saw this video on Virtual Battlespace 3 (almost exactly same engine as A3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9o7Wcf9Wg and was wondering if this will/can be implemented in ArmA3 or if it's something we can expect to have in the next ArmA? This seems to solve several performance issues yet provides an amazing experience - one that we as consumers can't experience because we don't have access to VBS3. Here's the description of the technology on the VBS website:

"VBS3 uses real-time object aggregation to bring more performance when viewing complex urban environments from the air. Object aggregation technology allows individual scenery models (trees and buildings) to be grouped together into an aggregated model in real time, which will require far fewer draw calls to the graphics card.

This capability is a huge leap forward for rendering performance, allowing much greater view distances and higher density of scenery objects than previously possible. This performance improvement is coupled with a smarter object fading technique for objects at the view distance threshold. Objects will now fade smoothly out of visibility, which results in a more believable visual experience when moving a camera quickly over the terrain database."

- https://bisimulations.com/vbs3/technology

So what are your thoughts on this? If it's possible to work this flawlessly on last gen hardware then why aren't we seeing this improvement for ArmA3?

[Wade]

Because BIS and BI are two differnt companies, so they dont share these kind of things with eachother. Howevr if BI implemented this kind of system in A3, I would be loving this 200% more happier than I do right now.

[Heavygunner]

No, they were based on the same engine but are so heavily modified that we can't just get simply features like that.

[Elize93]

I know they're basically different companies but I'm pretty sure they don't patent these technologies since they pretty much copy each other's features with every new generation of games.

This technology is available for VR3 and ArmA3 is on VR4. So - given that grouping objects into simpler LOD models for high view distances is a quick and efficient procedure - I don't see how this is not a possibility with ArmA3 (and totally worth spending time on). And forced rendering of objects of certain size doesn't seem like too much to ask for either.

[Elize93]

A more appropriate response to the engine question by BIS developer snYpir: "For the record, VBS3 is not directly based on the Arma3 engine. We branched following Arma2, and now we bring tech across as we need it. We still work fairly closely with the game team but military requirements continuously take VBS away from the Arma engine. Every now and then tech goes the other way, for example the thermal model in Arma is based upon the VBS implementation."

- http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?109702-VBS2-Discussion-thread-the-one-and-only&p=2575812&viewfull=1#post25

[Chortles]

Addendum: snYpir is not just a BISim dev, he's the co-CEO of BISim, Peter Morrison.

As for the fast air optimizations... most likely answer is that a military customer directly contracted and paid BISim for that, a relationship unlike BI-and-video games-for-entertainment-customers.

[Elize93]

That's good news Chortles. That brings me hope for the statement "We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. ... We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)"

And well I'm sure BI can compensate them for that. Literally half the ArmA fanbase is asking for performance optimizations. And I mean they've continously taken several functions from VBS like thermal sights, weapon firing from vehicles?, sway simulation?, etc. and now - with the Marksman DLC - the suppressive fire feature (a new feature for VBS3 as well).

[Hash]

Originally posted by MaoJin:

That's good news Chortles. That brings me hope for the statement "We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. ... We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)"

And well I'm sure BI can compensate them for that. Literally half the ArmA fanbase is asking for performance optimizations. And I mean they've continously taken several functions from VBS like thermal sights, weapon firing from vehicles?, sway simulation?, etc. and now - with the Marksman DLC - the suppressive fire feature (a new feature for VBS3 as well).

That would be awesome I kick myself for not buying VBS2, would of been free upgrade to VBS 3 then, thats when they sold to public, if your looking for a VBS like program check out Steel beasts, pretty much VBS for tanks but can control whole regiments, advanced features like bridge building, mine clearing full air system, can man any unit including inf commanders, jtacs, firetema MG's f**king fantastic title........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxhBVJ7yUxs

[Chortles]

Originally posted by MaoJin:

That's good news Chortles. That brings me hope for the statement "We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. ... We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)"

Unfortunately it was announced via e-mail[http//%5Burl%3Dhttp] and Facebook[www.facebook.com] (ditto[www.facebook.com]) that VBS3 would be offered to existing VBS2 PE users as a free upgrade but "we will not be releasing VBS3 PE for sale at this stage, except to academic institutions." Yesterday a BISim dev posted[forums.bistudio.com]: "You may email, [e-mail] and submit a ticket for sales. However as has been previously posted we no longer offer personal editions but there may be other possibilities. You are free to explore that route."

Originally posted by MaoJin:

And well I'm sure BI can compensate them for that. Literally half the ArmA fanbase is asking for performance optimizations. And I mean they've continously taken several functions from VBS like thermal sights, weapon firing from vehicles?, sway simulation?, etc. and now - with the Marksman DLC - the suppressive fire feature (a new feature for VBS3 as well).

The thermals maybe, but BI did their own from-scratch thing which may well be better (for gaming-as-entertainment) than VBS's iteration.

Also, the VBS3 "suppression" video was about designating an area for a player-controlled group leader's AI subordinates to fire at for a given duration (# of rounds fired, # of magazines expended, or # of seconds) or to "observe" (fire when enemies enter the designated area), but I recall reading that the opposing AI weren't actually affected beyond a 'normal' reaction to incoming fire, whereas Arma 3 has implemented both AI tendencies (i.e. avoid areas that incoming fire seems to be concentrated on) and a penalizing of suppressed AI's accuracy.

[Evilserge]

VBS is a military simulation proggram. And they run it on high end+ machines, and Arma is more like a game for a wide auditory. If they find a way to do that on more lower PCs im sure will gonna add it then.

[Hash]

Originally posted by Evilserge:

VBS is a military simulation proggram. And they run it on high end+ machines, and Arma is more like a game for a wide auditory. If they find a way to do that on more lower PCs im sure will gonna add it then.

As well as powerful on base networks,Arma players gotta put up with timmy,his mums laptop and his dial up connection.

[Elize93]

Originally posted by Evilserge:

VBS is a military simulation proggram. And they run it on high end+ machines, and Arma is more like a game for a wide auditory. If they find a way to do that on more lower PCs im sure will gonna add it then.

Not really. It has the same minimum and recommended requirements as ArmA3. [1] And the optimal requirements can be passed with a 700$ PC. However that's not what the topic is about.

[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBS3
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/CYRI/Requirements/arma-3-alpha/11602?p=r
https://manuals.bisimulations.com/vbs3/3-0/manuals/Content/Admin_Manual/Installation_System_Req.htm