Arma 3
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Ivan Jan 9, 2014 @ 3:54am
WHY IS THIS IN TRASH SO LONG ???
DELITE THIS♥♥♥♥♥♥ALREADY!
Last edited by Ivan; Feb 23 @ 6:17am
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Showing 1-15 of 43 comments
Firmament Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:03am 
For many, many different reasons, the gameplay would be absolutely horrible if it went on total realism only. We don't need that.

What we do need is to have an extremely open, deep and always evolving milsim with all the things that made OFP/Arma great, plus new features. That simple.
Last edited by Firmament; Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:03am
Kyetra Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:10am 
Originally posted by Firmament:
For many, many different reasons, the gameplay would be absolutely horrible if it went on total realism only. We don't need that.

What we do need is to have an extremely open, deep and always evolving milsim with all the things that made OFP/Arma great, plus new features. That simple.

I don't remember the need of putting 6 rifle rounds in the enemy torso to kill him in OPF or ARMA 1/2. Arma 3 is borderline unplayable right now, your enemies are bullet sponges, it's a ♥♥♥♥ing Call of Duty where you need to unload half a magazine at them. Shooting at 100 meters and more is pointless, you are just saying "hi" to them.

Who exactly are those "we" you are speaking about that finds this behaviour valid?
Last edited by Kyetra; Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:10am
Theo Hardmeier Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:22am 
Are you on dev build or normal?

Last time I tested some guns on dev build a week ago I always got 1 shot kills in the face with the 4-five .45.
Though I did notice a standard blufor squad is better armored.
Last edited by Theo Hardmeier; Jan 9, 2014 @ 5:28am
Firmament Jan 9, 2014 @ 7:39am 
Originally posted by I am Fluffy:
I don't remember the need of putting 6 rifle rounds in the enemy torso to kill him in OPF or ARMA 1/2.

Enemies were unrealistically hard to kill even in previous Arma games. You have no idea what you're talking about. Arma 3 makes it even more challenging, but Arma 2 was already quite harsh in that area.

I admit that OFP wasn't like that, though... I remember you could literally kill 6 or 7 guys in less than one second with a pkm... Those were the good old days (sarcasm)...


Originally posted by I am Fluffy:
Who exactly are those "we" you are speaking about that finds this behaviour valid?

They are the ones who understand that making Ai even a little unrealistically hard to kill can benefit to real ingame fight. We don't care about pure playtesting and what it would be implying on the gameplay's quality. This is not how Arma works and, again, you have to play it for real to understand that fighting in this game is much more exciting and challenging than in most other FPS.


Originally posted by Ivan:
Realism is only thing that can sell this series thay made wrong turn bringing arma in future anyone can tell you that.

Realism? Yes. But I was refering to absolute, total realism, period. Something very close to a pure simulator. No, this is definitely not what the Arma community wants, believe me. Going that way would entirely change the game because, like it or not, while Arma's gameplay has realistic elements into it, it is far, far from being realistic. Why do you think tanks in this game have so much trouble killing the infantry using their main weapon? Because, even though this looks quite unrealistic ingame (obvious absence of splash damages in this very example), the developers had to balance vehicles not to make them absolutely over-powered. And this is but an example among many (I could go on with the artillery precision, vehicles' armor, first aid kits - LOL do you still think Arma is about realism only, like you said it, when you have nice kits able to heal any wounds in few seconds...? Are you kidding me or what?).

Bi had to make choices, and what makes Arma great is not that it's a 90% or even 95% realistic game, but rather that it provides realistic features most other games don't while keeping interesting, open and balanced at the same time.

This is also why a Arma game can also be set on a more or less close future with no problems, as long as its roots remain identical: open > balance > realism. In that very order.
Last edited by Firmament; Jan 9, 2014 @ 7:58am
nephrox Jan 9, 2014 @ 10:22am 
try telling me saints row 4 is perfectly fine -,-
Spudgunner Jan 9, 2014 @ 10:47am 
This ability to soak up bullets only works in a zombie setting. You would think the improvement in body armor would go hand-in-hand with weapons technology.

Although I think the change was made recently. My last campign playthrough was much harder this time because of this. I now have to spam the single shot trigger to bring down the AI enemy quickly. That makes it like the burst mode without the aim penalty. Aim shoot, aim shoot will get you killed now.
Last edited by Spudgunner; Jan 9, 2014 @ 10:51am
Mirudes Jan 9, 2014 @ 11:16am 
I can understand that this was made due to game balancing.
But when the majority of the players are saying it is more of a game breaker, it used to be fixed.

After all, it's a simulation intended to act like a game but not a game that shows the player all the things that can go wrong.

Some bigger calibers are made with the "one shot-one kill" capability.
The enemy will simply not return fire when it was hit one time.

No matter what body armor will be developed in the year 2030 but a hit on a helmet is going to break the spine by the first hit.
Mirudes Jan 9, 2014 @ 11:36am 
By talking about opinions - I can't find yours in your posting.
Is it meant to be spam?
Mirudes Jan 9, 2014 @ 11:49am 
So you use a forum to tell other people to shut up?
Firmament Jan 9, 2014 @ 2:07pm 
Originally posted by Ivan:
In a real world there is no balancing.

Exactly. That's why you couldn't make a game like Arma if you were to focus on pure realism only. Arma always managed to find a cross between realism and balance. Those "we" are the ones who are happy with that.

Note that S.T.A.L.K.E.R games also have a system of bullets' trajectory that causes certain ones to "vanish" randomly when they "should" hit the target. It makes the game more hardcore, stressful, unfair and random, kinda like real gunfights should be. And S.T.A.L.K.E.R, while completely different, is basically praised for the same reasons as Arma: open, deep, challenging, realistic but not too much, artistically beautiful, and bugged (yes, some people like them!).

Back on topic, this is how I understand the "vanishing bullet" thing: it is impossible to reproduce what a real gunfight should be like in reality, so, in order to get closer of it, instead of working on a super clever Ai, extremely advanced ballistics, ultra realistic Ai detection and reactions and all these features which would be extremely hard to implement, the devs have to "cheat" to make it technically more difficult and also a little longer.
Why longer? Because I can guarantee you that, in real life, when people are fighting with AK74s inside streets, it takes ages for them to do anything when compared to a game where you can move quickly and sometimes not even taking proper covers.
And most important, most of the time people in real life do miss their target. I mean, they miss it *hell a lot*. Seeing how many people are already complaining about their low hit percentage when using weapons in Arma, I just can't imagine how mad they would get if the game was to become even more realistic, doing everything possible to make us gamers to miss our targets *like soldiers in real life miss theirs* (no offense to them, btw, this is just how real war works...).
So, in Arma, you are meant to shot, miss, reload, go prone, find cover, ect... And all this must take some time and patience, just not as much time and patience as in reality. I'm not a dev, but I'm almost convinced that one of the reasons they made soldiers more resistant than in Arma 2 is due to the fact that Arma 3 has better controls, and a better playability - closer to classical FPS than any previous Arma/Ofp games in that area. See what I mean? They didn't want close fights to happen basically like in BF or whatever paced FPS, but in the same time they wanted to grant the player better controls and movements than before. I'm not saying that the way they've balanced weapons and armors is perfect, far from it, but things will certainly get improved in the future.


Overally though, I find it pointless to compare a game with the real world. No balancing in real world, so maybe we should ask the devs to make Arma unbalanced? What is that logic? There are no respawns, no super aid kits, no hud, no icons for mines, no special damages for tanks, no super accurate artillery, and no Ai either in the real world... What to do with those, then?
Last edited by Firmament; Jan 9, 2014 @ 2:39pm
Kyetra Jan 10, 2014 @ 5:37am 
Originally posted by Firmament:
Enemies were unrealistically hard to kill even in previous Arma games. You have no idea what you're talking about. Arma 3 makes it even more challenging, but Arma 2 was already quite harsh in that area.

Oh I do have quite an idea. I have spent many hours in OPF, ARMA 1/2, both single and multiplayer, belive me I DO have an idea.
Enemies were always hard to kill - yes, that is correct. But they were never terminator-like bullet sponges. They were hard to kill because:
a) they were hard to spot;
b) hard to actually hit when you spotted them, given the ranges of engagements;
c) they were equally good or even better marksman then you.
However when you did hit them and they didn't manage to hit you faster, they died. Simple as that and exactly how it always been and how it should be.

Hell, in ARMA 3 alpha and beta this wasn't a problem, everything worked ok back then. Now I came back to it after few months break and after playing for a few hours I thought steam switched my games from ARMA to Call of Duty.

Again those "we" you are speaking about - I have still no idea who they are. ARMA community? I'm a part of it and somehow I don't find your words true. Who else then? People that appriaciate that ARMA has become CoD?

Even on BIS forums and support pages are tickets regarding this issue. This has nothing to do with "balance", this series never required you to put half a clip to kill someone (granted the bullets hit the target of course) and somehow the balance was there.
Last edited by Kyetra; Jan 10, 2014 @ 5:38am
Firmament Jan 10, 2014 @ 7:15am 
Oh I do have quite an idea. I have spent many hours in OPF, ARMA 1/2, both single and multiplayer, belive me I DO have an idea.
Enemies were always hard to kill - yes, that is correct. But they were never terminator-like bullet sponges. They were hard to kill because:
a) they were hard to spot;
b) hard to actually hit when you spotted them, given the ranges of engagements;
c) they were equally good or even better marksman then you.
However when you did hit them and they didn't manage to hit you faster, they died. Simple as that and exactly how it always been and how it should be.

Like I said it, considering that it's impossible to reproduce in a game what a gunfight should be in real life, I like the idea of making it kind of unfair and very challenging, even if the devs have to cheat a little... Being a huge fan of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R games, I have been used to fight against ultra resistant enemies, and seeing Arma 3 going in that direction doesn't annoy me in any way. But there, I must admit that this is a very personnal opinion.
You will notice however that both Arma and S.T.A.L.K.E.R are well known for being quite hard and ruthless. Again, I see nothing wrong with them featuring slightly unrealistic enemies because I know that these games were made to be challenging. I'm fine with this.


Hell, in ARMA 3 alpha and beta this wasn't a problem, everything worked ok back then. Now I came back to it after few months break and after playing for a few hours I thought steam switched my games from ARMA to Call of Duty.

Christ, quit comparing Arma to COD... These two games really have nothing in common.


Again those "we" you are speaking about - I have still no idea who they are. ARMA community? I'm a part of it and somehow I don't find your words true. Who else then? People that appriaciate that ARMA has become CoD?

Still on the COD comparison, eh? Do you think I haven't noticed that you basically have nothing else to add? Also, how can you claim to be part of the Arma community after claiming that Arma = COD? This statement so incredibly foolish that I won't even try to make any comment on it.


Even on BIS forums and support pages are tickets regarding this issue. This has nothing to do with "balance", this series never required you to put half a clip to kill someone (granted the bullets hit the target of course) and somehow the balance was there.

People may have different opinions on this. Doesn't that mean they're not part of the same community.
Imo the only ones that really have no place in the Arma community are the ones that are dumb enough to compare this game to COD.
Last edited by Firmament; Jan 10, 2014 @ 7:16am
Dwarden  [developer] Jan 10, 2014 @ 8:20am 
enemies hard to kill is simply plain bug
first there was bug where the personal armor wasn't working
now the bug was fixed and the personal armor 'start to work' but it works too well (aka breaks existing balance configs)
so it's slowly fixed internally, some of it already in DEV and rest soon in DEV
sorry that it took 'longer' than instant to fix it
Kyetra Jan 10, 2014 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by Firmament:
You will notice however that both Arma and S.T.A.L.K.E.R are well known for being quite hard and ruthless. Again, I see nothing wrong with them featuring slightly unrealistic enemies because I know that these games were made to be challenging. I'm fine with this.

Of course they are challenging - that is the whole point and i love this part. But never before ARMA tried to accomplish this due to cheating - becasue that what it is, the AI is cheating. Right now I need to pack 6-7 bullets into enemy sodier for him to actually die, while he still needs 1 or 2 shots to kill me. ARMA never did this. Again - A3 alpha and beta never did this. This is some ♥♥♥♥ up in one of the post-final patches.

Also I'm not fond of games that build their challenging gameplay on cheats. I prefer when they give you fair rules with enemies whose actions are bound within the same rules as the player character. Take Dark Souls for example. OPF/ARMA was like that all the time - rules were simple and identical for both sides. If the game needs to cheat to accomplish a higher difficulty level then there is something very wrong with gameplay design. Unfortunately, this seems like a problem of 90% modern games. Maybe that's why I'm not very fond of modern games.

Now, to the CoD comapriosion. Of course ARMA is in no way to be compared to CoD, I thought that this exaggeration was rather clear but it seems it is not. Thing is as awsome as A3 is - stunning visuals, perfect models, gigantic, great looking open world, lots of improvements over previous titles, better movement, animations, tha campaign seems great as far as it goes, etc. - this issue makes it all completely void. I just cannot immerse myself in a game that does nearly all that it needs perfectly and then falls short at it's main point - shooting people. I cannot immerse myself into this virtual war knowing that when it'll come to actual engagement i will have to do what i need to do in almost every modern "shooter" - spray bullets and pray that n-th one will actually kill its target. That is what I'm comparing to CoD, which serves here as a general example rather then a single title.

If you find this fun - be my guest, have fun. I am on the other hand waiitng for BIS to revert whichever patch made those changes. Again - it was fine before, just got ♥♥♥♥ed up along the way. Or mods. Knowing BIS - im betting on mods.
Kyetra Jan 10, 2014 @ 8:41am 
Originally posted by Dwarden:
enemies hard to kill is simply plain bug
first there was bug where the personal armor wasn't working
now the bug was fixed and the personal armor 'start to work' but it works too well (aka breaks existing balance configs)
so it's slowly fixed internally, some of it already in DEV and rest soon in DEV
sorry that it took 'longer' than instant to fix it

Oh awsome - thank you for the reply! Awsome news. :)
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